Ancient Egyptians on GEDmatch

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Originally Posted by Gilgamesh900

Again, it's not representatives to claim that these busts are how the Egyptians look like in general or originally. They could have been very similar to Somalis or the 7abesh or east Africa. Anyway, fuck Egypt right in the fucking ass.

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You think this Old Kingdom mummy bust looks more like an East African than a modern Egyptian, such as a Copt?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...1d6c4199c2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Isleño

Post the quotes that say ONLY they can take on Greco-traditions if they were related by marriage or by blood. Unless you have these quotes that say ONLY, it's speculation.

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Go and read Eusebius, Perpetration for the Gospel. A Hellenist was one who worshiped the Greek Gods by their Greek names and that and only that. Only those who were of Greek decent worshiped the Greek Gods by their Greek names since the Greek religion was one of Ancestor Worship and the Gods were their ancestors. The Jews worshiped their own Gods such as Elyon, El and Jehovah by their Hebrew/Phoenician names, and the Egyptians their own Gods such as Ra and Thoth by their Egyptian names. No one worshiped anyone else's Gods by anyone else's names unless these people were descended from people who were married to Greeks. Instead they associated them with their own Gods, and worshiped them by their own names. All of Eusebius, Perpetration for the Gospel supports what I have said.

The Egyptians stubbornly refused to abandon their supertitions and even derided people who did not follow their customs. They never adopted Greek or Roman customs unless they were related to them.

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Originally Posted by Gilgamesh900

Can't say but we need to sequence more mummies from the early days of Egypt to find out for sure.

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Of course, but to just believe in speculation is crazy. Especially after you've been on a mission as of lately to prove the Ancient Egyptians were not black. You seem to be having second thought. Have you been letting afrocentrists get to you? The Shuenemann study showed continuity through the New Kingdom through the Ptolemaic and Roman periods. The New Kingdom was before Greco-Roman immigration. Surely you understand what this means right?

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Originally Posted by Raine

Go and read Eusebius, Perpetration for the Gospel. A Hellenist was one who worshiped the Greek Gods by their Greek names and that and only that. Only those who were of Greek decent worshiped the Greek Gods by their Greek names since the Greek religion was one of Ancestor Worship and the Gods were their ancestors. The Jews worshiped their own Gods such as Elyon, El and Jehovah by their Hebrew/Phoenician names, and the Egyptians their own Gods such as Ra and Thoth by their Egyptian names. No one worshiped anyone else's Gods by anyone else's names unless these people were descended from people who were married to Greeks. Instead they associated them with their own Gods, and worshiped them by their own names. All of Eusebius, Perpetration for the Gospel supports what I have said.

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Post the quote. Otherwise we can only assume it's speculation.

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Originally Posted by Isleño

Of course, but to just believe in speculation is crazy. Especially after you've been on a mission as of lately to prove the Ancient Egyptians were not black. You seem to be having second thought. Have you been letting afrocentrists get to you? The Shuenemann study showed continuity through the New Kingdom through the Ptolemaic and Roman periods. The New Kingdom was before Greco-Roman immigration. Surely you understand what this means right?

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I was thinking about what the ancient Egyptians were really like and things didn't add up as what I thought they were. The cranial and the limb measurements are much more similar to the peoples of southern Sudan than to the people of the near east and etc. The New Kingdom might have experienced more immigration from the middle east which is why Egyptians today cluster more closer to the middle east than to North Africans like Berbers and etc.

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Originally Posted by Gilgamesh900

I was thinking about what the ancient Egyptians were really like and things didn't add up as what I thought they were. The cranial and the limb measurements are much more similar to the peoples of southern Sudan than to the people of the near east and etc. The New Kingdom might have experienced more immigration from the middle east which is why Egyptians today cluster more closer to the middle east than to North Africans like Berbers and etc.

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But that's just speculation.

"Ancient Egyptians as a whole generally exhibit intermediate body breadths relative to higher and lower latitude populations, with Lower Egyptians possessing wider body breadths, as well as lower brachial and crural indices, compared to Upper Egyptians and Upper Nubians. This may suggest that Egyptians are closely related to circum-Mediterranean and/or Near Eastern groups, but quickly developed limb length proportions more suited to their present very hot environments. These results may also reflect the greater plasticity of limb length compared to body breadth.

... It can be seen that previous stature estimation methods tend to overestimate Egyptian stature for both sexes.It can be seen that previous stature estimation methods tend to overestimate Egyptian stature for both sexes. The present studys stature estimates (bolded) are about 1-3 cm less than that of other studies for the same time periods, with an average 1.5 cm difference. New Kingdom pharaoh males may have been taller because of their higher status, however Robins and Shute (1983) used Trotter and Glesers (1958) equations for American Blacks to estimate their statures is the mean using regression formulae for the femur). Raxter et al. (2008) showed that although ancient Egyptians proportions are closer to American Blacks than they are to American Whites, they are not identical. Stature regression equations derived from American Black populations may therefore not be appropriate to estimate the statures of ancient Egyptians.

...The fact that limb proportions in ancient Egyptians are somewhat more “tropical” may reflect the greater lability of limb length compared to body breadth. The results may also suggest that Egyptians are closely related to circum-Mediterranean and/or Near Eastern groups and have retained those body breadths acquired earlier in time, but quickly developed limb length proportions more suited to their present very hot environments. The present results for bi-iliac breadth are also consistent with various genetic studies that have found modern Egyptians to have close affinities to Middle and Near Easterners (Manni et al., 2002; Arredi et al., 2004; Shepard and Herrera, 2006; Rowold et al., 2007) and Southern Europeans/Mediterranean groups (Capelli et al., 2006). Some of these authors suggested their results may have been associated with a diffusion from the Near East during the expansion of early food-producing societies (Arredi et al., 2004; Rowold et al., 2007)....MK, NK, and Roman-Byzantine Nubian males exhibit greater stature variation than their Egyptian counterparts from the same periods, with Nubian males possessing more variation compared to Nubian females. The greater variation in Nubian males may be indicative of greater in-migration of and intermarriage with foreign males. (Raxter; 2011)

http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/vi...00&context=etd

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Originally Posted by Gilgamesh900

I was thinking about what the ancient Egyptians were really like and things didn't add up as what I thought they were. The cranial and the limb measurements are much more similar to the peoples of southern Sudan than to the people of the near east and etc. The New Kingdom might have experienced more immigration from the middle east which is why Egyptians today cluster more closer to the middle east than to North Africans like Berbers and etc.

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This is what Mathilda had to say on the subject of limb proportions (Ancient Egyptian matches modern Egyptian):

https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wo...ians-compared/

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Originally Posted by Isleño

There is truth in this you quote. But we must also acknowledge that during Greco-Roman periods, Greek and Roman practices were accepted and practiced by a wide portion of the entire population, including indigenous populations. Greco-Roman traditions were often held in high regard and were considered desirable by indigenous populations. Shuenemann et al. notes this in the aforementioned study we've discussed here. It's quotes as such:

"On the one hand, the interpretation of literary and archaeological sources is often complicated by selective representation and preservation and the fact that markers of foreign identity, such as, for example, Greek or Latin names and ethnics, quickly became ‘status symbols’ and were adopted by natives and foreigners alike"

In the information you quoted above, we can see that Greco-Roman mummy portraits were popular all over Egypt and not just with particular Greco-Romans found in Fayum:

"Subsequent excavations at sites such as Fag el-Gamus, el-Hibeh, Antinoopolis, Akhmim, and most recently Marina el-Alamein suggest that mummy portraits actually were known throughout much of Egypt, so that the term "Fayum portraits" is no longer valid."


So although a Greco-Roman portrait could indeed be indicative of a Greco-Roman grave, it's not exclusive to this and could also be indicative of an indigenous Egyptian grave, possibly an upper class person, but probably not pharaonic royals.

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Uh clearly they arent egyptians. Those are greeks and romans. You are being rediculous. In fact you are giving egyptians credit where its something a greek or roman did. those potraits arent native Egyptian. Those are roman greek, the tradition and art style is like that too. None of the pre greek/roman occupation era of ancient egyptian wall paintings are done in similar manner. Use common sense man. You are better than that

Post some fayum roman pictures of them in traditional egyptian pharaonic attire. with them holding a Egyptian scepter.
but instead you find them in roman garbs and greek wreaths.
https://thegoodcatanddog.files.wordp...aoh-t12459.jpg

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Originally Posted by Isleño

You think this old kingdom Egyptian was black?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Nofret_03.jpg

You have done a 180 degree turn and are going against what you posted in earlier threads.

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Looks mixed with black. Maybe quadroon - mullata of east SSA mixture
the skin is just light skinned

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Originally Posted by Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

Those are greek paintings of greeks/romans ruling Egypt. Look at the paintings art style for goodness sakes. But your wiki link even tells us this

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No they weren't. Check you own source:

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Under Greco-Roman rule, Egypt hosted several Greek settlements, mostly concentrated in Alexandria, but also in a few other cities, where Greek settlers lived alongside some seven to ten million native Egyptians.[10] Faiyum's earliest Greek inhabitants were soldier-veterans and cleruchs (elite military officials) who were settled by the Ptolemaic kings on reclaimed lands.[11][12] Native Egyptians also came to settle in Faiyum from all over the country, notably the Nile Delta, Upper Egypt, Oxyrhynchus and Memphis, to undertake the labor involved in the land reclamation process, as attested by personal names, local cults and recovered papyri.[13] It is estimated that as much as 30 percent of the population of Faiyum was Greek during the Ptolemaic period, with the rest being native Egyptians.[14]

The portraits represent native Egyptians, some of whom had adopted Greek or Latin names, then seen as ‘status symbols’.[15][16][17][18] Victor J. Katz notes that "most modern studies conclude that the Greek & Egyptian communities coexisted with little mutual influence".[19] Anthony Lowsted has written extensively on the scope of Apartheid that separated the 2 communities during the Hellenistic, Roman & Byzantine period.[20]

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Originally Posted by Smeagol

No they weren't. Check you own source:

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Yes, they were Egyptians despite that they were Romanized culture with a mixture of Greek and Egyptian cultures.

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Originally Posted by Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

Looks mixed with black. Maybe quadroon - mullata of east SSA mixture
the skin is just light skinned

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Stop being so delusional. She looks very Egyptian Caucasoid.

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Originally Posted by Gilgamesh900

Yes, they were Egyptians despite that they were Romanized culture with a mixture of Greek and Egyptian cultures.

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Yeah, also the dental morphology of the Fayum mummies was compared with that of earlier Egyptian populations, and was found to be "much more closely akin" to that of ancient Egyptians than to Greeks or other European populations. (Irish JD (2006). "Who were the ancient Egyptians? Dental affinities among Neolithic through postdynastic peoples.". Am J Phys Anthropol 129 (4): 529-43)

So yeah anyone claiming they were Greeks or Romans is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Smeagol

No they weren't. Check you own source:

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Then why are the clothes in roman and greek garbs wearing greek wreaths?

Who are the identity of these people portrayed? How do you confirm they are in fact Egyptians. And not Mixed with roman/ greeks or just roman greeks involved in some of their local customs?

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Originally Posted by Gilgamesh900

Stop being so delusional. She looks very Egyptian Caucasoid.

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no she doesnt. It looks mixed

this is caucasian

http://www.ancient.eu/uploads/images...g?v=1485680956

not this
[IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...1d6c4199c2.jpg[/IMG]

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Originally Posted by Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

Then why are the clothes in roman and greek garbs wearing greek wreaths?

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Because Greek culture was spread far beyond Greece's borders even as far as India.

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Who are the identity of these people portrayed? How do you confirm they are in fact Egyptians. And not Mixed with roman/ greeks or just roman greeks involved in some of their local customs?

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Already posted evidence for this. Dental morphology studies for one.

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Originally Posted by Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

no she doesnt. It looks mixed

this is caucasian

http://www.ancient.eu/uploads/images...g?v=1485680956

not this
[IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...1d6c4199c2.jpg[/IMG]

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Nope. This is Caucasian too. Zero negroid traits.

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Originally Posted by Smeagol

Nope. This is Caucasian too. Zero negroid traits.

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Yes tamil people must be caucasians too lol. They arent. He isnt caucasian. Hes just not bantu. But hes east african mixed. Horners are mixed with ssa but they dont have bantu ancestry and their natufian ancestry generally makes them look more caucasian compared to other ssa groups. But they arent caucasians really. They are mixed and have some of their own unique genes / phenotype. Plus they have several hundred and thousand years of them selectively picking mates with certain phenotypes. Even though they are ssa mixed. But it is not caucasian you can tell by looking at it. Look at the head shape. And forehead. Look at the fulani woddabi. Are you going to tell me this fulani is caucasian too? Lol just because they are mixed and dont look like the rest of west africans? You will but many are mixed with west africans. Including these. They look more caucasian shapes than that egyptian statue
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3fb1babb5e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...26e32be187.jpg
I bet you consider modern egyptians caucasoid. Lol. Even though you awknowledge their bantu ssa ancestry

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Originally Posted by Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

Uh clearly they arent egyptians. Those are greeks and romans. You are being rediculous. In fact you are giving egyptians credit where its something a greek or roman did. those potraits arent native Egyptian. Those are roman greek, the tradition and art style is like that too. None of the pre greek/roman occupation era of ancient egyptian wall paintings are done in similar manner. Use common sense man. You are better than that

Post some fayum roman pictures of them in traditional egyptian pharaonic attire. with them holding a Egyptian scepter.
but instead you find them in roman garbs and greek wreaths.
https://thegoodcatanddog.files.wordp...aoh-t12459.jpg

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It was mentioned in the Shuenemann study that often Egyptians adopted Greco-Roman culture, as it was desired by some. I'm not saying all Fayum portraits are Egyptian, however there may be some that were indeed Egyptians. Unless we have DNA evidence linking a mummy to a portrait, it's all just speculation for any argument. I think we are straying off track speculating from busts and portraits. We should stick to DNA. As of the latest results on Egyptian mummies Shuenemann et al. 2017, the results are of Near Eastern origin. However, there is between 6%-15% SSA in these individuals, only 8% less SSA as modern Egyptians. So it seems they are very close to modern Egyptians genetically, which would hint at genetic continuity. If we understand that the oldest mummy tested was from the New Kingdom, before Greco-Roman settlement, we should realize this person was indeed an Egyptian. There is genetic continuity through the New Kingdom into the Ptolemaic and Roman periods. The Shuenemann study and team quoted there was found to be no evidence of foreign admixture in the three genome-wide mummies tested.

In fact, here is the list of all the mummies tested for mtDNA for which nearly all of them had Eurasian mtDNA, including the oldest mummy from 1388 BC, from before Greco-Roman immigrantion:

https://images.nature.com/full/natur...s15694-s1.xlsx

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Originally Posted by Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

Looks mixed with black. Maybe quadroon - mullata of east SSA mixture
the skin is just light skinned

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Princess Nofret looks to me like any modern Egyptian today. I wouldn't say mulatto nor quadroon, although probably similar to the 6%-15% SSA admixed Caucasoid mummies of Abusir El Meleq, per the Shuenemann study. I'd say probably genetically similar to modern Egyptians. But again, although we've all participated in speculation from images, we should really stay away from speculation using busts and portraits, DNA is far more reliable.

We Waz Kangz or Shit? :)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ent-mummy.html

Big blow for anthrocentrists:)

http://i.imgur.com/FCtjxSe.png
http://i.imgur.com/vtM3Fzs.png

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The face of Nebiri revealed: Scientists reconstruct the head of the ancient Egyptian 'Chief of Stables', 3,500 years after he died of heart failure

A 3,500-year-old noble Egyptian called Nebiri has been brought back to life through modern forensics.

Scientists have reconstructed the face of the ancient mummy, and discovered he had a prominent nose, wide jaw, straight eyebrows and moderately thick lips.

In the process they have also discovered an unusual embalming treatment used by ancient Egyptians, in which linen was packed into the head cavity to maintain its structure.

Nebiri is thought to have been a member of the Egyptian elite who served as the Chief of the Stables, looking after royal horses, during the reign of Thutmoses III, a pharaoh from the 18th Dynasty of ancient Egypt.

His remains were discovered in the Valley of the Queens in Luxor in 1904, but as the tomb has been plundered, just his head and jars containing his organs remained.

Researchers from the University of Turin have now used a range of facial reconstruction techniques to produce an impressive facial approximation.

To reconstruct his face, the researchers used a mixture of computer modelling and anthropological research.

The team then used a computer programme to start to build up a picture of the Egyptian’s face.

Because we researchers know the thickness of soft tissue for man of his age, they can then create depth marker so that they know what the distance should be between the bone and skin.

The researchers then used the depth pegs to work out where the muscle tissue would have been placed.


Speaking to Live Science, Raffaella Bianucci, who led the study, said: 'He was between 45 [and] 60 years old when he died.

'His tomb in the Valley of the Queens was plundered in antiquity and his body deliberately destroyed.'

The reconstruction suggests that Nebiri was a man with a large nose, wide jaw, thick lips and straight eyebrows.

Philippe Charlier, a forensic pathologist and physical anthropologist at the University of Paris 5, said: 'The reconstruction is nice, but this is not just art in my eyes.

'It is a serious forensic work based on the latest techniques of facial reconstruction and soft tissues over skull superposition.
'Beyond beauty, there is anatomical reality.'

The scans also reveal that Nebiri's mummified head was packaged in a unique way, using linens that had been treated with a complex mix of animal fats or plant oil, an aromatic plant, and two types of resin.

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Much more interesting would be au of those from Early Dynastic Period from the
people, and hgs of all possible kings regardless epoche, but the older, the better.

1500 BC is not bad, but it is quite late - just when Indoeuropeans were pharaos
and after hundrets of years of semitic, canaanic and hurrian migrations there.

Why the Gedmatch kits for these three Egyptian samples were removed from Gedmatch?

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Originally Posted by Sikeliot

Here are their Eurogenes K15 and Dodecad K12b.

One of the three goes in the direction of Ashkenazim, Sicilians, etc. The other two are more like a mixture of modern Egyptians and Levantines.

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Here's an average
East Med: 41.50
Red Sea: 22.27
West Med: 16.18
Atlantic: 6.40
Northeast African: 5.31
Sub Saharan: 2.44
South Asian: 2.02
Baltic: 1.64
West Asian: 1.16
Southeast Asian: 1.06
Amerindian: 0.02

On the K15 plot: (731, 695)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/at...9&d=1518236183

Significantly closer to Europe than modern Egyptians, which supports my theory that they have a lot of Arabian admixture.

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Originally Posted by Peterski

So that gladiator from York was probably Egyptian, as his results are very similar to these Egyptians.

That gladiator is intermediate between modern Copts and modern Samaritans, which was confusing.

But now it turns out, that ancient Egyptians were also intermediate between Copts and Samaritans.

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@Peterski do you have any Coptic Gedmatches?

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Originally Posted by Wadaad

bahahaha...ok, to me she reminds me of Michelle Obama, and Tut himself looked like Malia Obama

http://i1.wp.com/revelationnow.net/w...size=640%2C300

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Malia Obama is at least 25% European (and probably closer to 35%, given that the average Black American with roots in slavery is ~20% White) and has a mostly Caucasoid nose.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Martnen

Here's an average
East Med: 41.50
Red Sea: 22.27
West Med: 16.18
Atlantic: 6.40
Northeast African: 5.31
Sub Saharan: 2.44
South Asian: 2.02
Baltic: 1.64
West Asian: 1.16
Southeast Asian: 1.06
Amerindian: 0.02

On the K15 plot: (731, 695)

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/at...9&d=1518236183

Significantly closer to Europe than modern Egyptians, which supports my theory that they have a lot of Arabian admixture.

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Not really. If anything really, the ancient Egyptian cluster more closer to my people than to Europeans. The ancient Egyptian is from the Roman period of Egypt, and the sample(Egyptian3) is more closer to me and my cousin than to other Egyptians including the ancient Egyptians from the new kingdom(Egyptian1, Egyptian2):
https://s5.postimg.org/h78k02eqv/mccree900_mummy.png

Wouldnt it make sense that Ancient Egyptians were of various colors, like depicted on some the texts?

light-red-brown: Egyptians
somewhat light skinned: Levantines/Caanites
black: Nubians like those of Sudan.
fair skin: Libyans?

The Empire was stretched more too no?

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Originally Posted by Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

Yes tamil people must be caucasians too lol. They arent. He isnt caucasian. Hes just not bantu. But hes east african mixed. Horners are mixed with ssa but they dont have bantu ancestry and their natufian ancestry generally makes them look more caucasian compared to other ssa groups. But they arent caucasians really. They are mixed and have some of their own unique genes / phenotype. Plus they have several hundred and thousand years of them selectively picking mates with certain phenotypes. Even though they are ssa mixed. But it is not caucasian you can tell by looking at it. Look at the head shape. And forehead. Look at the fulani woddabi. Are you going to tell me this fulani is caucasian too? Lol just because they are mixed and dont look like the rest of west africans? You will but many are mixed with west africans. Including these. They look more caucasian shapes than that egyptian statue
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3fb1babb5e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...26e32be187.jpg
I bet you consider modern egyptians caucasoid. Lol. Even though you awknowledge their bantu ssa ancestry

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Do you know what Caucasoid means? It does not mean Europeans only.

For many its Europeans, Arabs, Jews, Berbers, Ethopians, Iranians, Indians.

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Originally Posted by McCree900

Not really. If anything really, the ancient Egyptian cluster more closer to my people than to Europeans. The ancient Egyptian is from the Roman period of Egypt, and the sample(Egyptian3) is more closer to me and my cousin than to other Egyptians including the ancient Egyptians from the new kingdom(Egyptian1, Egyptian2):
https://s5.postimg.org/h78k02eqv/mccree900_mummy.png

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He didn't mean that Europeans were their closest match, but that ancient Egyptians were more European-shifted than modern Egyptians are i.e. ancient Egyptians were further north.

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Originally Posted by wvwvw

Assad is lighter than the average Syrian as is the king of Jordan. And many north Africans have nowdays mixed with French colonialists or are descended from the slave european women that ended up in the slave markets there. Tripoli used to be a major slavery hub during the Ottoman era.

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The King of Jordan is 50% English

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Originally Posted by Mingle

He didn't mean that Europeans were their closest match, but that ancient Egyptians were more European-shifted than modern Egyptians are i.e. ancient Egyptians were further north.

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Yes, indeed. The ancient Egyptians were less SSA admixed than the modern ones, but the ancient sample from the Roman period is more levantine shifted than the other two samples from the new kingdom which suggests that there had been gradual admixture between Egyptians and their Levantine neighbors, but not much.

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Originally Posted by McCree900

Not really. If anything really, the ancient Egyptian cluster more closer to my people than to Europeans. The ancient Egyptian is from the Roman period of Egypt, and the sample(Egyptian3) is more closer to me and my cousin than to other Egyptians including the ancient Egyptians from the new kingdom(Egyptian1, Egyptian2):

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The Ancient Egyptian dot on the map I posted is the average of all three Ancient Egyptians

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Originally Posted by Bobby Martnen

The Ancient Egyptian dot on the map I posted is the average of all three Ancient Egyptians

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If that's the case then it kinda makes sense considering that the ancient Egyptian's SSA admixture is lower than their Muslim descedants. The average SSA admixture among Palestinians is around 8.5% while the average SSA on modern day Egyptians is between 17 to 22%, but regardless, the modern day Egyptians including Muslims and Copts cluster the closest to the Levant and the middle east as a whole rather than to North Africans and other peoples outside the middle east:

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At the genome-wide level, Egypt is quite similar to its Levantine neighbours, displaying a mainly Near Eastern (39.8%) and Arabian/North African (30.5%) background, with slightly higher western (5.6%) and eastern (15.1%) African proportions, and lower European (8.4%) and South Asian (0.6%) proportions. The ROLLOFF estimate for admixture in Egypt (using Africans and Europeans as ancestral populations) was 30 generations, predictably young due to continuous gene flow between the two regions. Morocco and Tunisia presented similar western (9.8–12.2%) and eastern African (10.4–12.1%) components and roughly twice the magnitude for each of the European (22.8–25.5%), Near Eastern (21.4–26.0%) and Arabian (28.9–31.0%) pools. Again these young dates show that simple genome-wide dating approaches based on linkage disequilibrium decay must be applied cautiously in complex scenarios of several migrations occurring over a long span of time, such as the ones which took place across the Red Sea, North Africa [56] and Iberia [57].
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ents-in-Arabia

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Originally Posted by Sikeliot

Send me its GEDmatch ID?

They're closer to Sicilians, Cretans, Dodecanese than to Turks. Interesting.

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Old Greek got civilization from Levantines and Egyptians, Turks didn't. So it's not so surprising. Turks have their genes, state, culture, language comin from Farthest Asia. Roman culture has more MENA roots.

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Originally Posted by McCree900

If that's the case then it kinda makes sense considering that the ancient Egyptian's SSA admixture is lower than their Muslim descedants. The average SSA admixture among Palestinians is around 8.5% while the average SSA on modern day Egyptians is between 17 to 22%, but regardless, the modern day Egyptians including Muslims and Copts cluster the closest to the Levant and the middle east as a whole rather than to North Africans and other peoples outside the middle east:

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Do you have any Coptic GEDmatches? I suspect they'll plot closer to Europe than Muslims (lack of Arabian admixture), but I'd like to confirm it

Did you see the result from the 2018 study on the mummy head of Governor Djehutynakht from the 11th Dynasty, Middle Kingdom (2010 BC) found in Middle Egypt? He had mtDNA U5b2b5, West Eurasian origin. He is from the time before all the foreigners started arriving. This is from the study:

“The mtGenome profile independently obtained from the tooth by the FBI and HMS laboratories were identical and can be found in Table S2. The haplotype (deposited in GenBank under accession number MG736653) belongs to mitochondrial DNA lineage U5b2b5, but the specific sequence has not been previously reported in the 35,942 mtGenomes stored in the NCBI GenBank database (as of October 2017). The sequence closest to the mummy’s belongs to a contemporary individual from Lebanon (KT779192 [67]); however, the two haplotypes still differ at five positions, three of them in the control region (CR). A comparison between the mummy CR and the 26,127 CR sequences from the EMPOP database produced no match.”

And the authors go on to align Djehutynakht with one of the mummies tested at Abusir as being the closest among tested mummies:

“The Djehutynakht sequence was also compared to available ancient human DNA sequences (Table S4). Not surprisingly, no direct matches to the Djehutynakht sequence have been reported. However, related U5b2b sequences have been observed in ancient human remains from Europe, and a haplogroup U5b2c1 haplotype was recently discovered in 2000-year-old remains from Phoenicia [67]. When only the mtDNA sequences recovered from ancient Egyptian human remains are considered, the Djehutynakht sequence most closely resembles a U5a lineage from sample JK2903, a 2000-year-old skeleton from Abusir el-Meleq [74].”

http://http://www.mdpi.com/2073-4425/9/3/135/pdf


Or a recent study of two brothers from 12th Dynasty Upper Egypt that have a West Eurasian haplogroup with a local Africanized mutation, haplogroup M1a1:

“Analysis of single nucleotide polymorphisms showed that both Nakht-Ankh and Khnum-Nakht belonged to mitochondrial haplotype M1a1, suggesting a maternal relationship.”

Here’s a pic of the mummy mask of one of the brothers Nakht-Ankh:

http://https://www.sciencedirect.com...52409X17305631

http://www.ancient-egypt.co.uk/manch...useum_1036.jpg

One of the three genome-wide tested mummies of Abusir had M1a1 mtDNA, and was found to be old West Eurasian ancestry:

JK2911
Pre-Ptolemaic 769BC-560BC

Y-chromosome - J2b1-PF7314
X-chromosome - M1a1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bobby Martnen

Do you have any Coptic GEDmatches? I suspect they'll plot closer to Europe than Muslims (lack of Arabian admixture), but I'd like to confirm it

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M735006 Copt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leto

M735006 Copt

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Thanks. Closer to Ancient Egyptians than Moslem Egyptians are.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bobby Martnen

Thanks. Closer to Ancient Egyptians than Moslem Egyptians are.

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Obviously. The Muslims have extra African and Arabian input.