Actual Importance of Haplogroups

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Originally Posted by Bobby Martnen

My father knows his Y-DNA because I told him about it.

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:rolleyes:

Alright, lads, your great-grandparents. Or indeed your father until the age of about 50.

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Originally Posted by Longbowman

:rolleyes:

Alright, lads, your great-grandparents. Or indeed your father until the age of about 50.

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There were less foreigners and Meds and Slavs in my country then, so they could have their own identity and have the American identity be for them.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Martnen

There were less foreigners and Meds and Slavs in my country then, so they could have their own identity and have the American identity be for them.

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there were fewer Slavs in 2005 before commercial testing became readily available?

look, Bobby, it's nice, I guess, that you like YDNA, but pretending that it's inseparable or even a constituent part of what a person's identity should be when 98% of the population and 100% of our ancestors don't even know their YDNA is a bad joke, to the point I originally thought its exponents were being ironic.

That’s true. Autosomal results are more important.

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Originally Posted by Longbowman

there were fewer Slavs in 2005 before commercial testing became readily available?

look, Bobby, it's nice, I guess, that you like YDNA, but pretending that it's inseparable or even a constituent part of what a person's identity should be when 98% of the population and 100% of our ancestors don't even know their YDNA is a bad joke, to the point I originally thought its exponents were being ironic.

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Fewer people from places other than Northwestern Europe in America when my great-grandfather was alive.

In the olden days, people didn't know it, but I know mine and I identify with it.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Martnen

Fewer people from places other than Northwestern Europe in America when my great-grandfather was alive.

In the olden days, people didn't know it, but I know mine and I identify with it.

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To what extent? Are other I1 people your kith and kin even if they're not even vaguely related to you? Say some Finn, or even a foreigner, Med, or Slav who is I1?

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Originally Posted by Longbowman

To what extent? Are other I1 people your kith and kin even if they're not even vaguely related to you? Say some Finn, or even a foreigner, Med, or Slav who is I1?

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Some "dark people" have I1 because they descend from their slave master.

But I definitely feel a connection to other Germanic I1 people like Teutone.

Basically, haplogroups are just a genetic surname.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Martnen

Some "dark people" have I1 because they descend from their slave master.

But I definitely feel a connection to other Germanic I1 people like Teutone.

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OK, so, you don't in fact identify with I1. You only feel a connection to people who are from your pan-ethnicity anyhow.

There are plenty of non-Germanic I1 people who are not descended from slave masters, too, btw, but I'm not sure why that matters. You think being I1 is important, so you should be indiscriminate in how it got to where it is. People with R1b who are European have to 'deal' with the several tribes of Cameroon who are all R1b. You people are defending yDNA as a source of identity, you can't just cut out people you don't like. That's No True Scotsman.

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Originally Posted by Longbowman

OK, so, you don't in fact identify with I1. You only feel a connection to people who are from your pan-ethnicity anyhow.

There are plenty of non-Germanic I1 people who are not descended from slave masters, too, btw, but I'm not sure why that matters. You think being I1 is important, so you should be indiscriminate in how it got to where it is. People with R1b who are European have to 'deal' with the several tribes of Cameroon who are all R1b. You people are defending yDNA as a source of identity, you can't just cut out people you don't like. That's No True Scotsman.

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I'd rather my daughter marry a I1 Dark Man than a R1b White Man.

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Originally Posted by Bobby Martnen

I'd rather my daughter marry a I1 Dark Man than a R1b White Man.

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You change your tune quickly when inconsistency is pointed out, my friend.

Either way this is all patently absurd. There's a good chance you are not the same yDNA as your maternal grandfather and there's a good chance that your grandchildren won't be I1, either. Will you still identify more with the 'I1 Dark Man' than them?

Haplogroups are extremely overrated in genetic geneology.

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Originally Posted by Longbowman

societies*

Whereas Alphas are OK by being cucked by their brothers and fathers, got it.

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Deuteronomy 25:5-10 King James Version (KJV)

5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.

6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.

7 And if the man like not to take his brother's wife, then let his brother's wife go up to the gate unto the elders, and say, My husband's brother refuseth to raise up unto his brother a name in Israel, he will not perform the duty of my husband's brother.

8 Then the elders of his city shall call him, and speak unto him: and if he stand to it, and say, I like not to take her;

9 Then shall his brother's wife come unto him in the presence of the elders, and loose his shoe from off his foot, and spit in his face, and shall answer and say, So shall it be done unto that man that will not build up his brother's house.

10 And his name shall be called in Israel, The house of him that hath his shoe loosed.

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Originally Posted by Longbowman

You change your tune quickly when inconsistency is pointed out, my friend.

Either way this is all patently absurd. There's a good chance you are not the same yDNA as your maternal grandfather and there's a good chance that your grandchildren won't be I1, either. Will you still identify more with the 'I1 Dark Man' than them?

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I would never give my precious daughters away to a non I1 man

My maternal grandfather is probably E1b

But my paternal grandfather shared I1 with his maternal grandfather

How come some haplogroups can be found in small amounts in some populations where they really would be least expected ???

For example I am in a IM223 FTDNA project group , and there have been individuals with this haplogroup from places such as Iraq, Armenia, Egypt, Turkey , Macedonia, and Serbia, even though they would be in a minority of their populations that have this HG its still amazing that what is generally North Euro haplogroup can be spread so far and wide.

Anyone seen other examples of this with other HG's ?

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Originally Posted by Bobby Martnen

I would never give my precious daughters away to a non I1 man

My maternal grandfather is probably E1b

But my paternal grandfather shared I1 with his maternal grandfather

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So you don't identify with your maternal grandfather? Pff, your daughters aren't going to listen to you with regards to yDNA, don't be mad.

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Originally Posted by rein

Deuteronomy 25:5-10 King James Version (KJV)

5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.

6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.

7 And if the man like not to take his brother's wife, then let his brother's wife go up to the gate unto the elders, and say, My husband's brother refuseth to raise up unto his brother a name in Israel, he will not perform the duty of my husband's brother.

8 Then the elders of his city shall call him, and speak unto him: and if he stand to it, and say, I like not to take her;

9 Then shall his brother's wife come unto him in the presence of the elders, and loose his shoe from off his foot, and spit in his face, and shall answer and say, So shall it be done unto that man that will not build up his brother's house.

10 And his name shall be called in Israel, The house of him that hath his shoe loosed.

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I don't get your point mate.

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Originally Posted by oszkar07

How come some haplogroups can be found in small amounts in some populations where they really would be least expected ???

For example I am in a IM233 FTDNA project group , and there have been individuals with this haplogroup from places such as Iraq, Armenia, Egypt, Turkey , Macedonia, and Serbia, even though they would be in a minority of their populations that have this HG its still amazing that what is generally North Euro haplogroup can be spread so far and wide.

Anyone seen other examples of this with other HG's ?

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As I said, people move around, even in small numbers. Let's say an I1 person joined the First Crusade and raped some woman in Antioch. Let's say that woman's kid ends up moving to Qamishli. And that man's kid moves to Baghdad. Pow, I1 in Iraq. Is that Arab North Euro? Obviously not, no matter what people pretend. You're not kin. Just as even though my YDNA is Natufian and ancient Israelite I am more connected to I1 Ashkenazim than to E-L29 Jordanians and Palestinians (of which there are many).

Autosomal DNA could change if you mix with other ethnicities. Haplogroups will still remain.

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Originally Posted by Thracian

Autosomal DNA could change if you mix with other ethnicities. Haplogroups will still remain.

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Then the autosomal DNA is a more accurate representation of who you are, proving my point.

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Originally Posted by Longbowman

Then the autosomal DNA is a more accurate representation of who you are, proving my point.

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Indeed. Haplogroups also play aimportant role to answer where your great great parents come from. But obviously, AuDNA represents who you are.

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Originally Posted by Thracian

Indeed. Haplogroups also play aimportant role to answer where your great great parents come from. But obviously, AuDNA represents who you are.

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Only two of my great great grandparents though, and even then atDNA is a better tell of that story. atDNA is good for population-wide studies but, again, atDNA is usually better, with haplogroups providing supporting evidence.

Is it possible to be assigned a haplogroup via a 23andme test for example, yet show no ethnicity estimates associated with where the haplogroup is associated with?

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Originally Posted by arkas

Is it possible to be assigned a haplogroup via a 23andme test for example, yet show no ethnicity estimates associated with where the haplogroup is associated with?

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Yes

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Originally Posted by Longbowman

Only two of my great great grandparents though, and even then atDNA is a better tell of that story. atDNA is good for population-wide studies but, again, atDNA is usually better, with haplogroups providing supporting evidence.

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I totally agree with you.

Haplotypes and haplogroups are relevant in that they can tell if extant populations had a common ancestor. Haplotypes used in studies of population genetics tell very little about the phenotype of present day human groups, because most have not been affected by environmental selection (or sexual selection, which could be a factor for some traits like eye color). As these haplogroups overlap between different populations, they are used by most geneticists and anthropologists in the West to support the claim that human races have no biological foundation. However, if I'm not mistaken many Russian and Chinese scholars still accept the concept of human races, and so generally do forensic anthropologists. Of course, as we all know, in the West ideology permeates the debate on race. This is what happens when a researcher steps out of the line:
https://quillette.com/2018/12/07/aca...-be-denounced/

Haplogroup mappings have to be viewed collectively, not individually. It doesn't work from that point of view. Also, if there is an autosomal mapping, the haplogroup mapping must be directly ruled out.

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Originally Posted by Atlantic Islander

H1 is as boring as chalk.

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Not for these Germanic fanboys that make up much of the forum.

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Originally Posted by Slavic Italian

Not for these Germanic fanboys that make up much of the forum.

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May i ask why the hate (thumbs down)?

So how do i know if my anscestor are weither arabs or berbers if not by haplogroup ?

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Originally Posted by Badr madani

So how do i know if my anscestor are weither arabs or berbers if not by haplogroup ?

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You're Moroccan? They were Berbers. There, sorted.

Haplogroup tells you nothing. Yesterday I saw an Armenian with Irish YDNA. Does it make him Irish by the standards of the Armenians or the Irish? No.

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Originally Posted by Longbowman

You're Moroccan? They were Berbers. There, sorted.

Haplogroup tells you nothing. Yesterday I saw an Armenian with Irish YDNA. Does it make him Irish by the standards of the Armenians or the Irish? No.

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So this banu hilal expansion is just a myth ?

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Originally Posted by Badr madani

So this banu hilal expansion is just a myth ?

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No, but even if you can prove your male-line agnatic ancestor in 800AD was Arab, Berber, white, black, whatever, it doesn't make you any of those things, and it doesn't mean your ancestry in 800AD was any of those things.

And ofc Banu Hilal had many YDNAs.

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Originally Posted by Longbowman

No, but even if you can prove your male-line agnatic ancestor in 800AD was Arab, Berber, white, black, whatever, it doesn't make you any of those things, and it doesn't mean your ancestry in 800AD was any of those things.

And ofc Banu Hilal had many YDNAs.

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So i should simply consider my self moroccan without complicating things even further ?

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Originally Posted by Badr madani

So i should simply consider my self moroccan without complicating things even further ?

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This would be the case even if it somehow turned out your own mother was Saudi.

E-V13 Dance

https://i.imgur.com/xSp698n.gif

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Originally Posted by Badr madani

So how do i know if my anscestor are weither arabs or berbers if not by haplogroup ?

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There is no other way to ultimately proof it, than hg.
Even if you would have unbroken records from the last
150 generations, then there would be still a need for a
verification, and this could have to be done only by hg.

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Originally Posted by Badr madani

So i should simply consider my self moroccan without complicating things even further ?

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Nope.

Don't listen to him. He has a weird life-goal to destroy or to spoil everything what
is good, heritable,traditional, or - especially and foremost - paternal, even himself.

Yes, listen to Rethel, of course. With the advent of YDNA testing becoming commercially available in c.2008, you should change (or be prepared to change) your identity 100% depending on what FTDNA tells you your haplotype is. Anyone who disagrees wants to 'destroy everything good, traditional, and paternal' in the world (even though Rethel himself wants to destroy everything that is traditional and matrilineal, so tradition isn't always a good thing).

If you take a test and it turns out your YDNA is R1b-L27 you would have to identify as English rather than Arab or Berber. Insist upon this to English people. If they don't accept you because you are brown and not a native English speaker, just ignore them, as they clearly want to 'destroy everything good and paternal' in the world.

Now the interesting story to come will be to explain how Yamnaya appeared to have segregated all the R1a from them, like they had some Full ftdna Y test back then. Bit mind blowing.

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Originally Posted by Petalpusher

Now the interesting story to come will be to explain how Yamnaya appeared to have segregated all the R1a from them, like they had some Full ftdna Y test back then. Bit mind blowing.

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Some people legit believe ethnogenesis myths and aetiologies - and some people not only believe them, but base their entire ideologies, identities and worldviews around them.

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Originally Posted by Longbowman

everything that is traditional and matrilineal

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For example what? :coffee:

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If you take a test and it turns out your YDNA is R1b-L27 you would have to identify as English rather than Arab or Berber. Insist upon this to English people. If they don't accept you because you are brown and not a native English speaker, just ignore them, as they clearly want to 'destroy everything good and paternal' in the world.

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Said a jewish Hamite, who everyday pretends to be english himself...

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Originally Posted by Longbowman

Some people legit believe ethnogenesis myths and aetiologies - and some people not only believe them, but base their entire ideologies, identities and worldviews around them.

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It's probably cultural as they split and evolved differently at some point. Im just wondering what are the odds you find some R1a before, some afterwards and none in that one specific culture at the time we sample them, at least yet.