So Celts were North Europeans after all?

Target: PT_Tagus_scaled
Distance: 1.5948% / 0.01594825
68.2 Celtic
17.4 Mozabite
14.4 ImperialRoman

Code:

---

Distance to:        PT_Tagus_scaled
0.05577007        Celtic:SX18_scaled
0.05921142        Celtic:DEU_Lech_EBA_POST_44
0.06032000        Celtic:DEU_Lech_EBA_POST_50
0.06051921        Celtic:DEU_Lech_MBA_OTTM_151ind2_d
0.06224875        Celtic:St_Gallen_SX20
0.06415807        Italic:ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_RMPR851
0.06508631        Celtic:CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany_DA111
0.07199948        Italic:ITA_Rome_Latini_IA_RMPR1016
0.07371635        Celtic:DEU_Welzin_BA_outlier3_WEZ57
0.07375606        Iberia_Southwest_BA
0.07478856        Celtic:Constance_MX283
0.07540233        Celtic:Constance_MX254_2
0.07564761        Celtic:DEU_Lech_EBA_AITI_119
0.07882293        Iberia_Central_BA
0.09077524        Germanic:DEU_MA
0.09507416        ImperialRoman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1
0.09739254        Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker:Scotland_LBA
0.19589071        Mozabite

---

Target: Pedro_scaled
Distance: 1.3048% / 0.01304787
58.6 Celtic
19.6 Mozabite
11.0 Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker
10.8 ImperialRoman

Distance to: Pedro_scaled
0.05877906 Celtic:DEU_Lech_EBA_POST_44
0.06023748 Celtic:St_Gallen_SX20
0.06078537 Celtic:CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany_DA111
0.06182685 Celtic:SX18_scaled
0.06442609 Celtic:DEU_Lech_MBA_OTTM_151ind2_d
0.06478785 Celtic:DEU_Lech_EBA_POST_50
0.06719431 Italic:ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_RMPR851
0.07174543 Celtic:DEU_Welzin_BA_outlier3_WEZ57
0.07304131 Celtic:Constance_MX254_2
0.07441181 Celtic:DEU_Lech_EBA_AITI_119
0.07509477 Celtic:Constance_MX283
0.07901192 Italic:ITA_Rome_Latini_IA_RMPR1016
0.08217015 Iberia_Central_BA
0.08989363 Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker:Scotland_LBA
0.09265209 Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker:England_MBA
0.09849515 Germanic:DEU_MA:AED_249
0.10283190 ImperialRoman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1
0.10684926 Germanic:DEU_MA:AED_106
0.10785546 Germanic:ISL_Viking_Age_Pre_Christian:VDP-A-5
0.11445099 Germanic:England_Saxon:I0773
0.19596904 Mozabite

Creoda's model:

Code:

---

Target: Viriato_scaled
Distance: 1.7323% / 0.01732257
60.0        Celtic
13.0        ImperialRoman
12.4        Mozabite
10.0        Italic
2.8        Germanic
1.8        Iberia_Central_BA

---

Also reposting his model without the multiple spaces because it wasn't working:

Code:

---

ImperialRoman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1,0.1069937,0.1486057,-0.0248897,-0.0551253,0.0057443,-0.016083,-0.0018017,-0.003769,0.0008863,0.0154293,0.007091,0.0059443,-0.008325,0.000642,-0.0068313,-0.0010607,0.008388,-0.001098,0.004483,0.0007087,-0.001539,0.002267,0.0031223,0.0018077,0.0015967
Celtic:SX18_scaled,0.126344,0.152329,0.048271,-0.00646,0.051394,-0.007251,0.0047,-0.000692,0.016362,0.035354,0.002598,0.016485,-0.016055,-0.006055,0.001629,0.000663,0.006128,0.00266,0.003897,-0.006628,0.006364,0.006183,-0.011709,-0.006145,0.000958
Celtic:DEU_Lech_EBA_AITI_119,0.121791,0.140143,0.05242,0.026486,0.040623,0.003068,0.001175,0.001154,0.003477,0.017859,-0.001299,0.01124,-0.020961,-0.019818,0.01045,0.02201,0.01708,-0.0019,0.009679,0.002376,0.007986,0.003957,-0.005053,0.000964,0.008382
Celtic:DEU_Lech_EBA_POST_44,0.124067,0.144205,0.056568,0.008721,0.04924,-0.001952,-0.00188,0.000692,0.008795,0.028247,0.001299,0.009292,-0.017988,-0.003028,0.005293,0.008353,-0.002608,-0.00266,0.004525,0.001126,-0.008235,-0.008285,-0.001356,-0.002651,-0.003233
Celtic:DEU_Lech_EBA_POST_50,0.120652,0.153345,0.043746,-0.002584,0.052933,-0.003347,-0.00329,-0.002077,0.022293,0.031162,-0.005846,0.008692,-0.022299,-0.010459,-0.002172,0.014585,0.021253,0.004307,0.001257,-0.005753,0.00262,0.000124,0.002835,-0.005181,-0.010418
Celtic:DEU_Lech_MBA_OTTM_151ind2_d,0.127482,0.156392,0.047894,0.005491,0.04647,-0.011435,0.00329,0.011538,0.010022,0.031345,0.006496,0.012889,-0.012487,-0.01156,-0.0095,0.000796,0.001565,-0.003801,-0.005656,0.005753,-0.002995,0.009521,-0.001356,-0.006386,-0.011855
Celtic:DEU_Welzin_BA_outlier3_WEZ57,0.129758,0.142174,0.050911,0.039406,0.044316,0.007251,-0.004935,0.008538,0.028429,0.024237,0.007957,0.007194,-0.008622,-0.012248,-0.000407,0.004906,-0.000652,0.001014,-0.003017,0.000375,0.012852,0.009645,-0.009983,0.005784,-0.004071
Celtic:CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany_DA111,0.124067,0.151314,0.063356,0.026163,0.0437,0.005857,0.001175,0.002308,0.020861,0.02442,-0.012342,0.00015,-0.01665,-0.003165,0.014658,-0.009546,-0.018254,0.003801,0.005908,0.001626,0.009858,0.006059,-0.004437,-0.005904,-0.005269
Celtic:St_Gallen_SX20,0.129758,0.147252,0.055814,0.012274,0.055087,0.009203,0.001175,0.001846,0.013908,0.0277,-0.003897,0.012589,-0.019623,-0.007707,0.005293,-0.008884,-0.017341,-0.003801,0.001006,-0.008504,-0.003494,0.004699,-0.002711,-0.006266,-0.00479
Celtic:Constance_MX254_2,0.130897,0.136081,0.055437,0.024871,0.041854,0.00251,0.0047,0.006231,0.017794,0.024784,-0.004384,0.007493,-0.016501,-0.014313,0.003122,0.018165,0.014473,0.003547,-0.002388,5e-04,-0.004243,0.011129,0.001479,-0.010483,0.001317
Celtic:Constance_MX283,0.126344,0.137096,0.057322,0.023579,0.050779,-0.003068,0.001175,0.003,0.020043,0.035172,-0.005521,0.009591,-0.014866,-0.009083,-0.000814,0.022408,0.016689,0.000127,0.004022,-0.002376,-0.001497,0.00643,-0.00456,-0.010242,0.001437
Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker:Scotland_LBA,0.1297585,0.133542,0.0630732,0.0527298,0.0351605,0.0193132,0.0061102,0.0030575,0.001892,-0.0027338,-0.0060082,0.0064818,-0.0180252,-0.0164115,0.024226,0.0058672,-0.0143422,0.0036108,0.0032995,0.0005313,0.0056462,0.0044822,-0.0003393,0.0042172,0.0041315
Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker:England_MBA,0.1270132,0.1290916,0.0630678,0.059755,0.0341783,0.019916,0.0014929,0.0049274,0.0045958,-0.0013935,-0.0047379,0.0039671,-0.0111495,-0.0156566,0.0246771,0.0091564,-0.0059516,0.0030703,0.0009834,0.0039871,0.0046975,0.0047133,-0.0006381,0.0058335,-0.0012045
Italic:ITA_Rome_Latini_IA_RMPR1016,0.127482,0.147252,0.033187,-0.016796,0.044008,-0.008646,-0.00376,-0.004846,0.026588,0.052666,-0.002761,0.015137,-0.036719,-0.008533,-0.009093,0.013392,0.016037,-0.004687,0.003897,0.004127,0.00262,-0.00272,0.001972,-0.007712,-0.008742
Italic:ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_RMPR851,0.133173,0.156392,0.0445,-0.00969,0.044008,-0.004462,0.00846,0.003,0.024543,0.044101,-0.002598,0.012289,-0.022448,-0.009634,-0.005429,-0.005834,0.00352,0.003167,0.006034,-0.007379,-0.008859,0.005317,-0.000863,-0.006989,-0.001796
Germanic:England_Saxon:I0773,0.141141,0.126941,0.063356,0.071383,0.044008,0.024263,0.00799,0.011307,0.00409,-0.00656,-0.005359,0.005395,-0.01219,-0.013074,0.021172,0.011668,-0.001434,0.000887,0.008673,0.008629,0.010981,0.003957,-0.003081,0.015544,-0.007424
Germanic:ISL_Viking_Age_Pre_Christian:VDP-A-5,0.126344,0.123895,0.076555,0.062016,0.03139,0.018128,0.007755,0.007615,0.009204,-0.007472,0.001624,0.007493,-0.009514,-0.018992,0.025651,0.02254,0.01356,0.004814,0.000377,0.002876,0.004742,0.005935,0.002095,0.012652,-0.00467
Germanic:DEU_MA:AED_106,0.125205,0.133034,0.064865,0.067184,0.03416,0.020917,0.00517,0.008769,0.002863,-0.009476,-0.006171,0.002548,-0.012042,-0.006193,0.019544,0.008486,0.015255,-0.006968,-0.015964,0.005503,-0.003244,0.012736,-0.017378,0.005422,-0.000239
Germanic:DEU_MA:AED_249,0.125205,0.126941,0.071653,0.04845,0.043085,0.023706,0.020211,0.001385,0.003477,-0.01057,-0.011854,-0.002398,-0.009663,0.003303,0.019679,-0.002784,-0.026598,-0.001774,0.004148,0.00988,0.01697,-0.006554,0.000123,0.007953,0.010658
Mozabite,-0.0649782,0.135551,-0.0032793,-0.0717622,0.0260249,-0.0328364,-0.0260656,0.0108257,0.0617306,0.0303463,0.0065097,-0.006366,0.021795,-0.0165685,0.0163159,-0.016176,-0.0027097,-0.0219282,-0.0435571,0.0082757,-0.0146263,-0.0367947,0.0246817,-0.0042277,0.0056594
Iberia_Central_BA,0.1239044,0.1505886,0.059639,0.0003691,0.0686281,-0.0074901,-0.0052371,-0.0001319,0.0395609,0.0550354,-0.0029926,0.01291,-0.0243167,-0.019621,0.0066116,0.0103233,0.0156089,-0.0004163,-0.0021549,0.0007146,0.0115154,-0.0001766,-0.0088561,-0.020261,0.0028397

---

portuguese invasion hehe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raizen

portuguese invasion hehe

---

Looks that way, but we just like G25.

Distance: 2.5622% / 0.02562178
63.4 Celtic
18.4 Italic
15.6 Mozabite
2.6 ImperialRoman

Code:

---

Distance to:        Juan_scaled
0.05301490        Celtic:St_Gallen_SX20
0.05445253        Italic:ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_RMPR851
0.05465897        Celtic:SX18_scaled
0.05560377        Celtic:DEU_Lech_EBA_POST_44
0.05824014        Celtic:DEU_Lech_EBA_POST_50
0.05880485        Celtic:DEU_Lech_MBA_OTTM_151ind2_d
0.06359312        Celtic:CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany_DA111
0.06428887        Italic:ITA_Rome_Latini_IA_RMPR1016
0.06806583        Celtic:DEU_Welzin_BA_outlier3_WEZ57
0.07043060        Celtic:Constance_MX283
0.07166493        Iberia_Central_BA
0.07204948        Celtic:Constance_MX254_2
0.07635240        Celtic:DEU_Lech_EBA_AITI_119
0.09601267        Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker:Scotland_LBA
0.09941724        Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker:England_MBA
0.10566573        ImperialRoman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1
0.10592341        Germanic:DEU_MA:AED_249
0.11418076        Germanic:DEU_MA:AED_106
0.11587385        Germanic:ISL_Viking_Age_Pre_Christian:VDP-A-5
0.11683241        Germanic:England_Saxon:I0773
0.20764523        Mozabite

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PT Tagus

Target: PT_Tagus_scaled
Distance: 1.5948% / 0.01594825
68.2 Celtic
17.4 Mozabite
14.4 ImperialRoman

Code:

---

Distance to:        PT_Tagus_scaled
0.05577007        Celtic:SX18_scaled
0.05921142        Celtic:DEU_Lech_EBA_POST_44
0.06032000        Celtic:DEU_Lech_EBA_POST_50
0.06051921        Celtic:DEU_Lech_MBA_OTTM_151ind2_d
0.06224875        Celtic:St_Gallen_SX20
0.06415807        Italic:ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_RMPR851
0.06508631        Celtic:CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany_DA111
0.07199948        Italic:ITA_Rome_Latini_IA_RMPR1016
0.07371635        Celtic:DEU_Welzin_BA_outlier3_WEZ57
0.07375606        Iberia_Southwest_BA
0.07478856        Celtic:Constance_MX283
0.07540233        Celtic:Constance_MX254_2
0.07564761        Celtic:DEU_Lech_EBA_AITI_119
0.07882293        Iberia_Central_BA
0.09077524        Germanic:DEU_MA
0.09507416        ImperialRoman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1
0.09739254        Pre-Celtic-Briton/Beaker:Scotland_LBA
0.19589071        Mozabite

---

---

I've also tried run samples on R. Here are the results (with penalty):

[1] "distance%=3.209"

PT_Tagus_scaled

Celtic,69.6
ImperialRoman,16
Iberia_Southwest_BA,7
Mozabite,5.2
Germanic,2.2

Code:

---

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
                Celtic:SX18_scaled        Celtic:DEU_Lech_EBA_POST_44
                          5.577007                          5.921142
      Celtic:DEU_Lech_EBA_POST_50 Celtic:DEU_Lech_MBA_OTTM_151ind2_d
                          6.032000                          6.051921
            Celtic:St_Gallen_SX20 Italic:ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA_RMPR851
                          6.224875                          6.415807
 Celtic:CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany_DA111 Italic:ITA_Rome_Latini_IA_RMPR1016
                          6.508631                          7.199948

---

Which are Xenophobic Russian sources?

Not necessarily, their high steppe brings them closer to northern Euros who have the most of it. But it doesnt really imply common descent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gixajo

Which are Xenophobic Russian sources?

---

What do you mean? All his stuff should come from Davidsky's G25 stuff.

Guys, there are Iron Age French samples! I'm downloading. So many samples!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peterski

Guys, there are Iron Age French samples! I'm downloading. So many samples!

---

Can't wait to see what they are like. Thank you.

If we have eastern samples from around the Alsace region they can be a good indicator of early celts, those were core Hallstatt regions.

I was looking at those Swiss Celtic samples and they are closest to Spaniards which would explain why Iberians get such a high dose of them.

Distance to: Celtic:Constance_MX283
0.03230589 Spanish_Soria
0.03981424 French_Auvergne
0.03988847 French_Occitanie
0.04058295 French_South
0.04108385 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.04109183 Spanish_Castello
0.04238192 Spanish_Girona
0.04344088 Spanish_Penedes
0.04357718 Spanish_Pirineu
0.04367458 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04370804 Swiss_French
0.04373152 Spanish_Cantabria
0.04483558 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.04491178 Spanish_Cataluna
0.04500153 Spanish_La_Rioja
0.04501239 Spanish_Barcelones
0.04516028 Spanish_Lleida
0.04530823 French_Paris
0.04594034 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04600792 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04695622 Spanish_Baleares
0.04780595 Basque_Spanish
0.04839098 French_Provence
0.04846419 Spanish_Valencia
0.04852166 French_Pas-de-Calais

Distance to: Celtic:Constance_MX254_2
0.03464891 French_Occitanie
0.03505670 French_Auvergne
0.03540269 Spanish_Soria
0.03686544 Swiss_French
0.03715282 French_Paris
0.03914016 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03991851 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.04038952 French_Nord
0.04044978 Swiss_German
0.04088626 Spanish_Penedes
0.04124982 Spanish_Girona
0.04142974 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04170260 French_Alsace
0.04173687 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04206262 Belgian
0.04243459 French_South
0.04250244 French_Provence
0.04297874 Spanish_Castello
0.04365573 Spanish_Pirineu
0.04396880 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.04420092 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04438978 Spanish_Lleida
0.04467872 Spanish_Cantabria
0.04474864 Spanish_Barcelones
0.04633059 Spanish_Baleares

Distance to: Celtic:St_Gallen_SX20
0.02962418 Spanish_Barcelones
0.03088535 French_Occitanie
0.03111555 French_Auvergne
0.03197608 Spanish_Pais_Vasco
0.03291915 Basque_French
0.03300421 French_South
0.03484421 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03543462 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03629089 Spanish_Lleida
0.03654432 Spanish_Pirineu
0.03657065 Spanish_Cantabria
0.03682866 Spanish_Aragon
0.03689219 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03696268 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.03747817 Spanish_Penedes
0.03768521 Spanish_Valencia
0.03780898 Swiss_German
0.03781292 Spanish_Cataluna
0.03788158 Spanish_Girona
0.03884917 Swiss_French
0.03936236 Spanish_Navarra
0.04042572 French_Paris
0.04063183 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04078563 French_Alsace
0.04080754 Spanish_Menorca

Target: Celtic:Constance_MX283
Distance: 2.2354% / 0.02235397
61.4 Spanish_Soria
14.4 Latvian
12.8 Sardinian
5.4 Cossack_Kuban
5.0 Basque_Spanish
1.0 Kosipe

Target: Celtic:Constance_MX254_2
Distance: 2.1602% / 0.02160158
58.0 Spanish_Soria
13.0 Slovakian
7.0 Basque_Spanish
6.0 Lithuanian_SZ
5.8 Spanish_La_Rioja
3.4 Cossack_Ukrainian
2.8 Norwegian
2.0 Ket
2.0 Sardinian

Target: Celtic:St_Gallen_SX20
Distance: 2.1566% / 0.02156619
44.4 Basque_French
18.0 French_Seine-Maritime
13.2 Italian_Lombardy
9.6 Spanish_Pais_Vasco
9.0 Lithuanian_VZ
5.4 Sardinian
0.2 Igorot
0.2 Shetlandic

Screw Bronze Age I'm just downloading Iron Age ones first.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peterski

Screw Bronze Age I'm just downloading Iron Age ones first.

---

I mean Bronze France is one place we can still know something more, but yeah...

All Iron Age samples (unless I missed some):

ATT26
BES1248
BFM265
COL11
COL153i
COL153A
NOR3-15
ERS86
ERS88
PECH5
NOR4
Jeb8
ERS1164
NOR2B6
NOR3-6
PEY53

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SharpFork

I mean Bronze France is one place we can still know something more, but yeah...

---

I will download Bronze Age ones after I finish with Iron Age ones.

Where can we see dating and location?

Ancient genomes from present-day France unveil 7,000 years of its demographic history.

Abstract:

Genomic studies conducted on ancient individuals across Europe have unraveled how migrations have contributed to its present genetic landscape, but the territory of present-day France has yet to be connected to the broader European picture. We generated a large dataset comprising the complete mitochondrial genomes, Y chromosome markers and genotypes on a number of nuclear loci of interest, obtained through a DNA enrichment approach, of 203 individuals sampled across present-day France over a period spanning 7,000 years, complemented with a partially overlapping dataset of 58 low-coverage genomes. This panel provides, for the first time, a high-resolution transect of the dynamics of maternal and paternal lineages in France as well as of autosomal genotypes. Both parental lineages and genomic data revealed demographic patterns in France for the Neolithic and Bronze Age transition consistent with neighboring regions with a first wave of migration of Anatolian farmers, then varying degrees of admixture with autochthonous hunter-gatherers and a second high gene flow from individuals deriving part of their ancestry from the Pontic Steppe at the onset of the Bronze Age. Our data have also highlighted the persistence of the Magdalenian heritage in hunter-gatherer populations outside Spain and thus provide arguments for an expansion of these populations at the end of the Paleolithic period, more northerly than what has been described so far. Finally, no major demographic changes were detected during the transition between the Bronze and Iron Ages. (...)

I'm expecting most of Bronze Age Northern France to be similar to Bronze Age Britain, and below the Loire to be mostly Basque like. East of the Loire part of the genetically West-Central-Euro Celtic homeland that later incorporated and influenced the rest.

Could be completely wrong of course.

OK, I sent all the Iron Age ones to Davidski for Global25:

https://i.imgur.com/IZRSEt1.png

Will check their Eurogenes K15 scores also in 10 minutes.

OK Eurogenes K15 results of France Iron Age samples:

Attachment 97875

Check here: https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

I'm going to eat some lunch now, and BA will be later.

Good example I think

BFM265 Iron Age

SNPs used for the calculation: 32 382
SNPs in calculator: 165 688
Genotype ratio: 19,54%

Components %
Amerindian 0,00
Arabian 1,67
Armenian 0,00
Basque 3,33
Central_African 0,10
Central_Euro 12,05
East_African 0,00
East_Asian 0,00
East_Balkan 0,00
East_Central_Asian 0,00
East_Central_Euro 2,50
East_Med 3,55
Eastern_Euro 1,51
Fennoscandian 3,87
French 9,55
Iberian 26,99
Indo-Chinese 0,00
Italian 4,07
Malayan 0,00
Near_Eastern 0,00
North_African 0,00
North_Atlantic 6,87
North_Caucasian 0,00
North_Sea 23,93
Northeast_African 0,00
Oceanian 0,00
Omotic 0,00
Pygmy 0,00
Siberian 0,00
South_Asian 0,00
South_Central_Asian 0,00
South_Chinese 0,00
Volga-Ural 0,00
West_African 0,00
West_Caucasian 0,00
West_Med 0,00


Target: xxx
Distance: 15.7139% / 15.71387512 | ADC: 1x
57.6 FR_Finistere
33.0 Yorkshire&Humber
5.2 PT_Azores
4.2 ES_Navarra

Target: xxx
Distance: 13.7270% / 13.72698365 | ADC: 0.5x
71.2 Yorkshire&Humber
19.2 ES_Navarra
9.6 ES_La_Rioja

Target: xxx
Distance: 13.5555% / 13.55546789 | ADC: 0.25x
55.0 Yorkshire&Humber
19.2 ES_Navarra
14.4 ES_La_Rioja
11.4 NL_Drenthe

Target: xxx
Distance: 13.5063% / 13.50628819
37.6 Yorkshire&Humber
25.4 NL_Drenthe
21.4 ES_Navarra
15.6 ES_La_Rioja

Att26 Iron Age

SNPs used for the calculation: 19908
SNPs in calculator: 165688
Genotype ratio: 12,02%

Amerindian 0,75
Arabian 0,00
Armenian 0,00
Basque 2,79
Central_African 0,44
Central_Euro 4,14
East_African 0,88
East_Asian 0,00
East_Balkan 0,00
East_Central_Asian 0,00
East_Central_Euro 14,64
East_Med 0,00
Eastern_Euro 0,00
Fennoscandian 6,82
French 8,51
Iberian 14,82
Indo-Chinese 0,00
Italian 13,13
Malayan 0,00
Near_Eastern 0,00
North_African 0,00
North_Atlantic 10,25
North_Caucasian 0,00
North_Sea 16,51
Northeast_African 0,00
Oceanian 0,00
Omotic 0,00
Pygmy 0,00
Siberian 0,00
South_Asian 0,76
South_Central_Asian 0,00



Target: xxx
Distance: 8.1847% / 8.18465743
29.2 NE_England
18.4 IT_Aosta
13.0 PL_north-eastern(Suwalki)
11.0 Swiss_Italian
7.8 NL_Friesland
6.6 West_Prussia
6.2 ES_La_Rioja
4.8 Portugal_Lisboa
2.8 IT_Sardinia
0.2 Mandingo

Target: xxx
Distance: 8.4360% / 8.43600687 | ADC: 0.25x
47.4 FR_Ile-de-France
17.8 NE_England
16.6 IT_Aosta
11.6 PL_north-eastern(Suwalki)
5.4 West_Prussia
0.8 IT_Sardinia
0.4 ES_La_Rioja

Target: xxx
Distance: 8.9782% / 8.97815518 | ADC: 0.5x
79.0 FR_Ile-de-France
10.6 Neumark(East_Brandenburg)
8.8 West_Prussia
1.6 PL_north-eastern(Suwalki)

Target: xxx
Distance: 10.1351% / 10.13513783 | ADC: 1x
70.6 FR_Ile-de-France
11.2 Lorraine-Champagne-Ardenne
9.4 northern_Ostpreussen
8.8 Flemish

^ Literally doesn't tell us anything about them unless you're already extremely familiar with how pops score on K36. Can you plot them on a PCA plot or post distances to moderns?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Samnium

Maybe migrants ? But unlikely, at the end of the day Celts were thought to come from Scandinavia so if some Celtic samples are Scandinavian like, it's not surprising.

---

The difference, distance is still quite big though. Maybe they were similar for other reasons than that.

COL11 Iron Age

Components %
Amerindian 0,00
Arabian 0,00
Armenian 0,00
Basque 4,75
Central_African 0,00
Central_Euro 5,29
East_African 0,00
East_Asian 0,00
East_Balkan 5,95
East_Central_Asian 0,00
East_Central_Euro 11,13
East_Med 0,00
Eastern_Euro 4,90
Fennoscandian 6,24
French 12,44
Iberian 6,58
Indo-Chinese 0,00
Italian 5,18
Malayan 0,00
Near_Eastern 0,00
North_African 0,00
North_Atlantic 19,43
North_Caucasian 0,00
North_Sea 13,85
Northeast_African 0,00
Oceanian 0,00
Omotic 0,00
Pygmy 0,00
Siberian 0,00
South_Asian 2,48
South_Central_Asian 1,77
South_Chinese 0,00
Volga-Ural 0,00
West_African 0,00
West_Caucasian 0,00
West_Med 0,00



Target: xxx
Distance: 9.8383% / 9.83827158 | ADC: 1x
36.4 NL_Overijssel
32.0 Sachsen
25.4 Ireland
6.2 West-Midlands

Target: xxx
Distance: 9.4064% / 9.40640437 | ADC: 0.5x
34.2 Ireland
27.8 NL_Overijssel
24.2 Sachsen
10.0 Neumark(East_Brandenburg)
2.8 IT_Bolzano
0.6 Grenzmark
0.4 Punjabi_1000genomes

Target: xxx
Distance: 8.7791% / 8.77911076 | ADC: 0.25x
33.2 Ireland
32.4 NL_Overijssel
17.0 Neumark(East_Brandenburg)
8.2 IT_Bolzano
6.0 Ukraine_Western
2.8 Punjabi_1000genomes
0.4 Grenzmark

Target: xxx
Distance: 8.7298% / 8.72975271
35.8 Ireland
30.4 NL_Overijssel
12.0 Neumark(East_Brandenburg)
7.6 IT_Bolzano
5.4 Ukraine_Western
5.0 PL_Lublin
3.8 Punjabi_1000genomes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roy

The difference . distanse is still quite big though.

---

Distances in K36 are bigger. In G25 will be lower for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XenophobicPrussian

^ Literally doesn't tell us anything about them unless you're already extremely familiar with how pops score on K36. Can you plot them on a PCA plot or post distances to moderns?

---

Code:

---

ATT26,37.37,21.78,13.11,1.13,17.75,0,2.94,0,4.09,0,0,0,0,0,1.82
BES1248,33.57,32.36,8.76,10.37,9.79,1.45,0.31,0,0.2,0.9,0,1.93,0,0,0.35
BFM265,28.12,34.55,11.89,3.86,11.42,3.64,4.73,0.93,0.01,0,0,0,0.4,0.44,0
COL11,33.38,25.25,15.49,6.28,10.75,2.53,0,0,5.23,0,0,0,0,0,1.09
COL153A,29.63,22.17,8.74,6.95,15.4,0,13.47,3.63,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
COL153i,21.54,30.34,8.12,7.3,17.4,8.39,0,0.3,0,0,1.34,0,3.32,1.94,0
ERS1164,21.87,34.86,9.97,8.73,12.71,4.57,1.48,0.3,1.19,0.29,2.53,0,0,0,1.5
ERS86,24.03,24.52,13.52,7.2,21.49,0,6.5,0.93,0,0,0,0,0.4,0.78,0.62
ERS88,29.83,18.14,1.07,7.03,18.8,4,17.58,2.25,0,0,0,1.01,0,0.29,0
Jeb8,26.5,30.24,7.46,3.21,20.32,2.45,4.19,0.59,0,0,0,2.54,2.5,0,0
NOR2B6,20.06,23.31,14.3,5.08,18.27,3.13,11.32,4.53,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
NOR3-15,23.05,33.21,17.52,0.07,14.08,5.44,0,2.89,0,0,0.65,0,0.51,2.59,0
NOR3-6,24.41,33.02,12.81,6.55,12.21,6.68,0,1.82,1.91,0,0,0.38,0.2,0,0
NOR4,29.01,19.86,6.35,2.84,26.46,0,13.8,0.37,0,0,0.97,0,0.34,0,0
PECH5,29.46,24.4,9.14,0,31.91,0,0,0.41,0,1.63,0.72,2.34,0,0,0
PEY53,33.74,36.39,5.11,4.4,8.63,4.19,2.8,3.18,0,0,0,0.29,1.27,0,0

---

Use this:

http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k15-vahaduo.htm

It should be correct?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XenophobicPrussian

^ Literally doesn't tell us anything about them unless you're already extremely familiar with how pops score on K36. Can you plot them on a PCA plot or post distances to moderns?

---

Two first are French like mostly, third is very Irish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SharpFork

Code:

---

ATT26,37.37,21.78,13.11,1.13,17.75,0,2.94,0,4.09,0,0,0,0,0,1.82
BES1248,33.57,32.36,8.76,10.37,9.79,1.45,0.31,0,0.2,0.9,0,1.93,0,0,0.35
BFM265,28.12,34.55,11.89,3.86,11.42,3.64,4.73,0.93,0.01,0,0,0,0.4,0.44,0
COL11,33.38,25.25,15.49,6.28,10.75,2.53,0,0,5.23,0,0,0,0,0,1.09
COL153A,29.63,22.17,8.74,6.95,15.4,0,13.47,3.63,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
COL153i,21.54,30.34,8.12,7.3,17.4,8.39,0,0.3,0,0,1.34,0,3.32,1.94,0
ERS1164,21.87,34.86,9.97,8.73,12.71,4.57,1.48,0.3,1.19,0.29,2.53,0,0,0,1.5
ERS86,24.03,24.52,13.52,7.2,21.49,0,6.5,0.93,0,0,0,0,0.4,0.78,0.62
ERS88,29.83,18.14,1.07,7.03,18.8,4,17.58,2.25,0,0,0,1.01,0,0.29,0
Jeb8,26.5,30.24,7.46,3.21,20.32,2.45,4.19,0.59,0,0,0,2.54,2.5,0,0
NOR2B6,20.06,23.31,14.3,5.08,18.27,3.13,11.32,4.53,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
NOR3-15,23.05,33.21,17.52,0.07,14.08,5.44,0,2.89,0,0,0.65,0,0.51,2.59,0
NOR3-6,24.41,33.02,12.81,6.55,12.21,6.68,0,1.82,1.91,0,0,0.38,0.2,0,0
NOR4,29.01,19.86,6.35,2.84,26.46,0,13.8,0.37,0,0,0.97,0,0.34,0,0
PECH5,29.46,24.4,9.14,0,31.91,0,0,0.41,0,1.63,0.72,2.34,0,0,0
PEY53,33.74,36.39,5.11,4.4,8.63,4.19,2.8,3.18,0,0,0,0.29,1.27,0,0

---

Use this:

http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k15-vahaduo.htm

It should be correct?

---

Yes, place them in K15 PCA.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SharpFork

Code:

---

ATT26,37.37,21.78,13.11,1.13,17.75,0,2.94,0,4.09,0,0,0,0,0,1.82
BES1248,33.57,32.36,8.76,10.37,9.79,1.45,0.31,0,0.2,0.9,0,1.93,0,0,0.35
BFM265,28.12,34.55,11.89,3.86,11.42,3.64,4.73,0.93,0.01,0,0,0,0.4,0.44,0
COL11,33.38,25.25,15.49,6.28,10.75,2.53,0,0,5.23,0,0,0,0,0,1.09
COL153A,29.63,22.17,8.74,6.95,15.4,0,13.47,3.63,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
COL153i,21.54,30.34,8.12,7.3,17.4,8.39,0,0.3,0,0,1.34,0,3.32,1.94,0
ERS1164,21.87,34.86,9.97,8.73,12.71,4.57,1.48,0.3,1.19,0.29,2.53,0,0,0,1.5
ERS86,24.03,24.52,13.52,7.2,21.49,0,6.5,0.93,0,0,0,0,0.4,0.78,0.62
ERS88,29.83,18.14,1.07,7.03,18.8,4,17.58,2.25,0,0,0,1.01,0,0.29,0
Jeb8,26.5,30.24,7.46,3.21,20.32,2.45,4.19,0.59,0,0,0,2.54,2.5,0,0
NOR2B6,20.06,23.31,14.3,5.08,18.27,3.13,11.32,4.53,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
NOR3-15,23.05,33.21,17.52,0.07,14.08,5.44,0,2.89,0,0,0.65,0,0.51,2.59,0
NOR3-6,24.41,33.02,12.81,6.55,12.21,6.68,0,1.82,1.91,0,0,0.38,0.2,0,0
NOR4,29.01,19.86,6.35,2.84,26.46,0,13.8,0.37,0,0,0.97,0,0.34,0,0
PECH5,29.46,24.4,9.14,0,31.91,0,0,0.41,0,1.63,0.72,2.34,0,0,0
PEY53,33.74,36.39,5.11,4.4,8.63,4.19,2.8,3.18,0,0,0,0.29,1.27,0,0

---

Use this:

http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k15-vahaduo.htm

It should be correct?

---

I see in K15 thre more Scanic and lesss Frenchy. I think K36 is better for them. At least for those which I checked.

Target: PEY53
Distance: 7.4034% / 7.40341896 | ADC: 0.5x
41.6 Irish
26.2 Southeast_English
17.2 French_Basque
15.0 Orcadian

Target: PECH5
Distance: 15.9464% / 15.94637519 | ADC: 0.5x
60.0 Spanish_Galicia
26.0 Spanish_Cantabria
9.2 Southwest_English
4.8 Sardinian

Target: NOR4
Distance: 10.7288% / 10.72882472 | ADC: 0.5x
60.4 Spanish_Galicia
38.0 Italy_Lombardy
0.8 Sardinian
0.8 West_German

Target: NOR3-6
Distance: 6.1643% / 6.16429788 | ADC: 0.5x
36.8 North_German
33.0 German_Bavarian
25.6 French_Basque
4.6 Austrian

Target: NOR3-15
Distance: 11.3392% / 11.33915116 | ADC: 0.5x
35.4 North_German
19.0 French_Basque
16.2 Southwest_French
15.4 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
14.0 Czech

Target: NOR2B6
Distance: 4.6527% / 4.65265468 | ADC: 0.5x
72.4 Italy_Trentino
19.6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
4.8 Slovenian
3.2 Lithuanian

Target: Jeb8
Distance: 5.0049% / 5.00488518 | ADC: 0.5x
64.8 France-South
17.6 Spanish_Cantabria
16.0 Southwest_English
1.6 French_Basque

Target: ERS88
Distance: 10.3518% / 10.35175321 | ADC: 0.5x
72.8 Italy_Lombardy
26.2 West_German
1.0 Libyan_Jewish

Target: ERS1164
Distance: 5.7850% / 5.78497897 | ADC: 0.5x
40.6 South_Dutch
34.8 French_Basque
14.8 Austrian
9.2 North_German
0.6 Tatar

Target: ERS1164
Distance: 5.7850% / 5.78497897 | ADC: 0.5x
40.6 South_Dutch
34.8 French_Basque
14.8 Austrian
9.2 North_German
0.6 Tatar

Target: COL153i
Distance: 7.9004% / 7.90037679 | ADC: 0.5x
41.6 Southwest_French
33.0 South_Dutch
11.0 German_Bavarian
6.0 Spanish_Cantabria
4.0 French_Basque
2.2 Chechen
2.0 Nogay
0.2 Papuan

Target: COL153A
Distance: 6.4833% / 6.48328372 | ADC: 0.5x
52.2 West_German
23.4 Italy_Lombardy
20.4 Spanish_Galicia
3.2 Italy_Trentino
0.8 Yemenite_Jewish

Target: COL11
Distance: 6.2210% / 6.22102019 | ADC: 0.5x
53.8 Southwest_English
21.0 East_German
15.8 Swedish
7.2 North_Dutch
2.2 Chamar

Target: BFM265
Distance: 4.9070% / 4.90700203 | ADC: 0.5x
41.6 Irish
33.0 German_Bavarian
19.2 French_Basque
6.2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon

Target: BES1248
Distance: 4.2136% / 4.21357697 | ADC: 0.5x
39.2 Southeast_English
30.8 England
22.4 West_Scottish
7.6 French_Basque

Target: ATT26
Distance: 11.9658% / 11.96576598 | ADC: 0.5x
56.4 West_German
23.0 Southwest_English
14.4 Spanish_Galicia
6.2 West_Norwegian

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lukasz

Good example I think


19.2 ES_Navarra
14.4 ES_La_Rioja



21.4 ES_Navarra
15.6 ES_La_Rioja

---

They must score high in WHG and not only steppe in calculators with those components.

Target: PEY53
Distance: 6.6620% / 6.66202098 | ADC: 0.25x
49.6 Orcadian
24.8 West_Scottish
24.4 French_Basque
1.2 Saudi

Target: PECH5
Distance: 13.3922% / 13.39219617 | ADC: 0.25x
51.4 Southwest_English
39.0 Sardinian
9.6 West_Norwegian

Target: NOR4
Distance: 8.1492% / 8.14915134 | ADC: 0.25x
40.8 Italy_Lombardy
32.0 West_Norwegian
27.2 Sardinian

Target: NOR3-6
Distance: 4.2682% / 4.26822808 | ADC: 0.25x
54.4 North_German
35.2 French_Basque
6.4 Russian_Smolensk
2.8 North_Ossetian
1.2 Kalash

Target: NOR3-15
Distance: 10.1414% / 10.14140038 | ADC: 0.25x
33.8 French_Basque
29.0 Irish
17.4 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
16.4 Lithuanian
2.6 North_Ossetian
0.8 Ethiopian_Ari_cultivator

Target: NOR2B6
Distance: 3.2513% / 3.25133046 | ADC: 0.25x
51.2 Italy_Trentino
33.0 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
11.6 Lithuanian
2.2 Saudi
2.0 Sardinian

Target: Jeb8
Distance: 3.8086% / 3.80860151 | ADC: 0.25x
48.0 France-South
23.4 Southwest_English
17.2 Spanish_Cantabria
9.2 French_Basque
1.2 Papuan
1.0 Karitiana

Target: ERS88
Distance: 9.5577% / 9.55774363 | ADC: 0.25x
55.2 Italy_Lombardy
22.2 West_German
11.6 Libyan_Jewish
11.0 West_Norwegian

Target: ERS86
Distance: 4.0761% / 4.07611653 | ADC: 0.25x
53.4 France-South
20.0 Spanish_Galicia
15.0 Latvian
7.6 Sardinian
3.8 North_Swedish
0.2 Southwest_French

Target: ERS1164
Distance: 3.2440% / 3.24397671 | ADC: 0.25x
46.0 French_Basque
40.0 North_German
13.0 Tatar
0.8 Austrian
0.2 Yoruban

Target: COL153i
Distance: 4.8732% / 4.87317459 | ADC: 0.25x
30.6 French_Basque
22.4 England
19.4 Spanish_Cantabria
14.8 East_German
8.6 Balkar
2.0 Papuan
1.8 Tatar
0.4 Ethiopian_Ari_cultivator

Target: COL153A
Distance: 5.4916% / 5.49160852 | ADC: 0.25x
41.8 West_German
17.4 Spanish_Galicia
17.2 France-South
9.0 Italy_Lombardy
8.0 West_Norwegian
6.6 Yemenite_Jewish

Target: COL11
Distance: 5.3046% / 5.30460517 | ADC: 0.25x
72.4 Southwest_English
10.4 Lithuanian
7.2 Danish
5.8 Swedish
4.2 Chamar

Target: BFM265
Distance: 4.1252% / 4.12517321 | ADC: 0.25x
62.2 Irish
23.0 French_Basque
8.0 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
6.8 Bulgarian_Thracian

Target: BES1248
Distance: 2.9408% / 2.94078078 | ADC: 0.25x
44.0 West_Scottish
35.2 Scotland
15.6 French_Basque
4.4 Aland_Sweden
0.8 Anzick-1

Target: ATT26
Distance: 10.1272% / 10.12718207 | ADC: 0.25x
71.4 West_Norwegian
15.4 Sardinian
11.6 Spanish_Galicia
1.6 Sakilli

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lukasz

Yes, place them in K15 PCA.

---

Target: gixajo
Distance: 8.5924% / 8.59241068
26.8 NOR2B6
25.0 Jeb8
18.2 PECH5
16.8 COL153i
6.8 ERS1164
6.4 NOR3-15

Distance to: gixajo
10.15329011 Jeb8
12.69928344 ERS86
12.78776759 COL153i
13.86413719 NOR2B6
15.18737963 ERS1164
15.40080517 NOR3-15
16.03148153 NOR3-6
16.51676724 BFM265
17.35875572 PECH5
19.15488188 NOR4
19.62168698 COL153A
22.22644596 PEY53
22.95239421 BES1248
23.61308959 ATT26
23.78826391 COL11
24.13346846 ERS88

Target: Jeb8
Distance: 2.5345% / 2.53451826
44.0 Orcadian
24.4 French_Basque
20.0 Sardinian
4.6 West_Norwegian
3.0 Southwest_English
2.0 Karitiana
2.0 Papuan

And my k15 of the same calculator:

Target: gixajo
Distance: 3.4839% / 3.48394996
41.4 French_Basque
35.0 Spanish_Galicia
7.8 Ukrainian_Lviv
7.4 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
6.2 Sardinian
1.4 Somali
0.4 North_Ossetian
0.4 Papuan

What are good distances on K15?

Again, just like BA Switzerland and Bavaria, completely mixed group and non-homogenous.

Quote:

---

Distance to: PEY53
9.72350246 Southeast_English
10.20197040 Irish
10.38149797 Southwest_English

Distance to: PECH5
16.65402654 Spanish_Galicia
17.08797238 France-South
17.37618485 Spanish_Cantabria

Distance to: NOR4
11.53827977 Spanish_Galicia
12.29058990 Italy_Lombardy
12.67998817 Portuguese

Distance to: NOR3-6
10.30015534 South_Dutch
10.46375650 German_Bavarian
12.13412131 French

Distance to: NOR3-15
15.36652856 German_Bavarian
15.94057088 South_Dutch
16.08980112 French

Distance to: NOR2B6
6.02952734 Italy_Trentino
7.45502515 Italy_Friuli
8.30534767 Italy_Piedmont

Distance to: Jeb8
6.17019449 France-South
8.29965662 Spanish_Cataluna
9.03606109 French

Distance to: ERS88
12.04279037 Italy_Lombardy
12.81326266 Italy_Veneto
13.52011464 Italy_Aostavalley

Distance to: ERS86
8.80119310 France-South
9.29623580 Spanish_Galicia
10.34985024 Spanish_Cataluna

Distance to: ERS1164
12.16415636 South_Dutch
12.48421804 German_Bavarian
13.31741717 French

Distance to: COL153i
12.20184822 French
12.46039325 France-South
12.73798257 Spanish_Cataluna

Distance to: COL153A
9.28228959 French
9.82291199 Italy_Aostavalley
10.82378400 Italy_Trentino

Distance to: COL11
8.88110916 North_German
8.90314551 Dutch
9.03960729 Southwest_English

Distance to: BFM265
9.62151755 South_Dutch
9.64661080 Belgium
9.97768510 German_Bavarian

Distance to: BES1248
5.34108603 Southeast_English
5.59627555 England
5.84556242 Southwest_English

Distance to: ATT26
12.74115772 West_German
13.73145295 Southwest_English
14.13941654 Belgium

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8 southern shifted ones(some even less than N. Iberia now, although that could just be a product of K15 and not using G25), 7 northern shifted ones.

I said it before and I'll say it again, lol. More Rhaetians perhaps. :picard1: Anyone know where in France these samples are from? Is it one spot or the entire country?

They are probably from different regions of France:

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/data/view/PRJEB36529

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XenophobicPrussian

Again, just like BA Switzerland and Bavaria, completely mixed group and non-homogenous.



8 southern shifted ones(some even less than N. Iberia now, although that could just be a product of K15 and not using G25), 7 northern shifted ones.

I said it before and I'll say it again, lol. More Rhaetians perhaps. :picard1: Anyone know where in France these samples are from? Is it one spot or the entire country?

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my bet is that the northern shifted ones are from a site further north. but apparently the french didn't changed much since the gauls.