which countries you consider most and least "Balkan" discussion thread.

[Aldaris]

In the Sudetenland area abt. 95% of the population (Germans) were expelled and looted so knowing about its past is essentially common knowledge.

I thought we established that most settlements in the area weren't founded by Germans. Or do you think that they came in the area with just an axe and built everything from scratch by themselves when they were invited by the Czech nobles?

Can you elaborate in what way to a notable extent Czech treasures were stolen, Czech houses were destroyed or stolen and what „industry went into the Reich“?

I can provide numerous examples. Štěchovický poklad. The facility which produced electricity that went for the needs of the reich.

Prameny Vltavy.

Forced labor for the reich.

Blowing up churches..

I can continue, but you get the point.

Because I can not relate to that. You will hardly refer to the Lidice crime with a few hundred individuals concerned for comparing that with abt. 3,300,000 Germans.

You refer to one crime as though it was everything you've done to us and compare it with the sum of everything we've done to you. Won't work with me, pal. Lidice is a tiny fraction of the crimes commited towards us by the reich.

Your narrative about Germans being the good guys or just as bad as the others falls down.

You cannot win this arguement by rationalization. Unlike you, I fully acknowledge that we looted Latin America, exploited blacks and Amerindians alike and I don't feel any shame about it. For you, it did not work with Europe, for us it did in America. We took their gold and their resources for the Spanish empire. Indeed.

In the ceased to the Reich in 1938 areas with over 3 million inhabitants lived somewhat more than 150,000 Czechs and they were expulsed to the later Protectorate area. To my knowledge they were not looted and could keep and sell their property.

We are talking about the entirety of the Czech lands. See the examples above. Wanna more? No problem.

Also later in the Protectorate all property conditions were left untouched except for the „general“ persecution of Jews and communists.

Even if it was true (it wasn't), see the examples above, who gave you that right? To hunt Jews, Gypsies (and communists) like pest?

As pretty much everything I refer to in this post is an utter defiance of the international law.

The Protectorate was exploited in the context of the wartime economy like all parts of Germany as well.

That's not an excuse. You had no right to do that in the first place. That's like a guy who assaults some other guy, causes him injuries and then arguments with something in a manner of 'But I was injured too!' We had nothing to do with you.

There was no industry taken away, in contrast, additional industries were added to the Protectorate as that area for most of the time was out of reach of Allied bombing planes and the Protectorate was the only area of the Reich with an intact population capable of full scale working (no military draft).

Pal, those industries brought in here were meant to serve the reich and its war machine and nothing else. It wasn't founded for the well being of the native population. We did bring additional industry and technology in America, Africa, etc, aswell. But only to serve us. Do you think that those Amerindians and blacks appreciated that?

Yes, and exactly that town was ethnically and geographically borderline with pretty intransparent conditions and it became a total outlier in fate as there were just 22 individuals expelled and looted as Germans (according to German Wikipedia).

That's irrelevant. Did the town belong to the Sudetenland? Yes, it did. That's enough.

I accept your assessment but please exclude the mentioned town in your consideration as there was essentially no expulsion and looting.

I actually never said there was. Sudetenland is not defined by that.

I’m not sure what exactly you mean by mixed. They were as ethnic German as you can be. And if you refer to genetics they score absolutely in line with the biogeographic continuum in the whole German people emerging area. Of course, they also have Slavic ancestry like all Eastern Germans. Although I consider it irrelevant for the dealt with topic, here are the G25 coords of a 4/4 Sudetengerman woman:

Spoiler!

Christel(Sudetenland)_scaled,0.127482,0.139128,0.0 59962,0.042959,0.038469,0.01757,0.005405,0.005077, 0.0045,-0.003827,-0.005684,-0.002548,0.001635,0.003441,0.000407,0.007292,-0.00013,0.00266,0.000503,0.005127,0.000873,-0.001731,0.007641,0.000482,0.001676

Ok, that's fine with me. That's what I've said, they were Germanic/Slavic.

Aha, now you speak of regions. Before you just spoke of Königgrätz / Hradec Kralové and Pilsen / Plzeň. Both these cities were not in the Sudetenland, but I see that those today defined regions do also comprise Sudentenland and other ceased to the German Empire in 1938 areas. So for your assessment you have to pay attention to what areas of those regions were German settled and which not.

No, I did not speak about the said cities. Here, where I bring up the point for the first time, I have explicitly said I mean regions:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post7700163

Regions like Hradec Králové or Plzeň for example are one of the richer

[Varda]

I eat ćevapi at ćevabdžinica Cica. There are two objects, in Zemun and near Knez Mihajlova.

But recently I rather like to eat gyros.

In Zemun i buy gyros in Dača.

Being more southern genetically don't makes you Balkan at all. Pastoralism again has nothing to do with Balkan either, since in heavily present across entire Southern Europe and Western Europe as north as Scotland. I already said in another thread what some groups of Romanians like these from Transylvania and Maramureș are not Balkan in any sense. Balkan first and most is related to heavy Oriental/Ottoman-Fanariot influence and strong corruption bringed by Greeks and Hellenised Albanians and Aromanians, all this was entirely absent in Transylvania and Maramureș.

I know the pernicious influence of Fanariots on non-Greek Balkan Orthodox Christians.
Luckily their influence on Serbs was minimal due to existence of Serbian church organization Patriarchate of Peć (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia...te_of_Peć) and Metropolitane of Karlovci (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrop...te_of_Karlovci). Except Serbs part of Bulgarians were under the Patriarchate of Peć, and Romanians in Banat were under the Metropolitanate of Karlovci. Part of Serbs outside of Patriarchate of Peć were under the Fanariots, but it was tinny minority. Wallachia was under the strong Fanariot influence.

[Varda]

Some Serbian authors wrote that Aromanians have brought heavy corruption and usury in the places in Serbia where they settled in 18th and 19th century. They also mentioned alien mentality of that Aromanians, which was totally different from mentality of local population. First taykuns and bankers in Serbia were Aromanians.

Some people believe that crypto Aromanians are dominant in 'deep states' of most of the Balkan countries. Allegedly current president of Serbia Aleksandar Vučić has Aromanian roots, according to some he has Albanian origin. It is higher chance for his further Aromanian origin. PM of Albania Edi Rama has recent Aromanian origin.

[Hulu]

Some Serbian authors wrote that Aromanians have brought heavy corruption and usury in the places in Serbia where they settled in 18th and 19th century. They also mentioned alien mentality of that Aromanians, which was totally different from mentality of local population. First taykuns and bankers in Serbia were Aromanians.

Some people believe that crypto Aromanians are dominant in 'deep states' of most of the Balkan countries. Allegedly current president of Serbia Aleksandar Vučić has Aromanian roots, according to some he has Albanian origin. It is higher chance for his further Aromanian origin. PM of Albania Edi Rama has recent Aromanian origin.

Edi Rama often gets ridiculed for his affinity to Vucic. They call him his brother.

[Dušan]

In Zemun i buy gyros in Dača.

Me too.
It is a bit expensive, but a good quality. There is also Bucko gyros nearby.

[Varda]

Edi Rama often gets ridiculed for his affinity to Vucic. They call him his brother.

Vučić's father is from village Čipuljić near town Bugojno in central Bosnia. Aromanians from Moscopole settled in Čipuljić in the late 18th century. Čipuljić was one of two villages in Bosnia with Aromanian population, other was in northern Bosnia. Later in 19th century some Serbian families from the environment settled to Čipuljić. Muhamed Filipović (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhamed_Filipović) remembered some people which coming in his village from Čipuljić when he was a kid and who spoke Aromanian. Vučić said that his paternal great-grandfather was merchant and he was rich. Dinaric Serbs in that time had contempt for trade, they considered it a dishonorable occupation. Vučić never admitted Aromanian roots, he claim his roots are from eastern Herzegovina from where his ancestors moved around Bugojno over 300 years ago. On 23andMe was appeared result of some Vučić from Banja Luka who is eastetn R1b (i think R1b-BY611). Maybe that guy has further origin from Čipuljić and it's related with our president...

Edi Rama by paternal line originated from Korçë area, historically most Vlachic area in Albania.

[Hulu]

Edi Rama by paternal line originated from Korçë area, historically most Vlachic area in Albania.

Voskopoje is the most Vlachic, Korca has some aromanians but the majority are hard core Albanians. And Korca has been key to our national unification.
They are just next to each other Korce and Voskopoje.

I just read your whole post, Voskopoje - Moscopole

[hazmatnik]

Voskopoje is the most Vlachic, Korca has some aromanians but the majority are hard core Albanians. And Korca has been key to our national unification.
They are just next to each other Korce and Voskopoje.

I just read your whole post, Voskopoje - Moscopole

Korca is very very suspicious to me. Too many autosomal matches from there (and surrounding villages) , some very hostile, others friendly.

[hazmatnik]

Dude, you should rethink about your malicious Yugoslav behavior.

I dont lick asses to Bulgarians, and shit on Serbs from SE Serbia, unlike you who lick asses to Croats here, and shitting on western Serbs.

I like and respect all Serbs no matter of region, and you will never see me telling things you yesterday said about Bosnian Serbs.

Western Serbs bring only pain and lies to my family (beginning with my stepfather and stepmother). Nothing else to talk about.
Our cultural differences are pretty deep, along with moral ones. I was raised not to be a slime. What to do. I poured lot of money in humanitarian purposes, just to get my opinion reinforced, who is slime who is not. You proved yourselves, not my fault.

[Voskos]

A model having Balkans Iron Age cluster (as the local source) and Russian_Ingria_IA (as the Northeastern European-related source) fitted for three present-day Balkan populations, Hungary, Croatian and Serbian with P-value>0.01 (Table ST9), as well as for the Kuline 10th c. CE with almost identical mixture proportions as in the 1240k dataset (supplementary section 12.1).

However, this model did not fit the ancestry of the remaining more southern (except Romanian) populations, who instead required a more local source represented by Greek_Empuries, and present-day Mordovian or Russian as proxy for Northeastern European-related ancestry. These models fit the ancestry for the remaining Balkans populations (Table ST10; Table ST11), with ~30-55% Northeastern European-related ancestry.