Are Kazakhs indeed Turkified Mongols?

[Yaglakar]

The above post is complete and utter bs. Classifying languages based on j and y variations. The Turkish author of that unpublished article claims that old Turkic is y and Turkish is y therefore Turkish or rather Oghuz how he puts it, is decedent of Old Turkic. LOL. Maybe it is time to publish old Turkic dictionary in Turkey, because old Turkic or rather Tukue Türk tongue used both initials j and y.

Now let's cut to the core. Old Turkic, Orkhon Uighur and Yenisei Kirghiz (essentially dialects of the same language) are dead languages with no direct successors. The closest language would probably be Tuvan, but it is not a descendant of old Turkic but a descendant of the language of Chiks, who due to their proximity spoke a very similar language. Qipchaq "language" is a complete scientific construct, no language data, no written material, it is only assumed they spoke some sort of Turkic language which they probably did with many dialectical variations, but due to numerous pre-Mongol era, Mongolic loanwords in Russian, at least some of tribal elements of Qipchaqs or Kumans must have been Mongolic, which is not surprising given that Turkics and Mongolics have been mixing way before Ghengis Khan. And certainly medieval "Qipchaqs" did not constitute a single people, more like terms Scythian or Türks (medieval ones, not ancient) covering a lot of different people with different origins. Karakhanid tongue or Türki is a branch of Tukue Türk language, but not its direct descendant, one can call it old Karluk to make things easy, but there were more than dozen different groups, not only Karluks. Orkhon Uighur and old Uighur are two different languages, one is language of monuments in Mongolia, and the other the language of documents found in Kucha-Tufan-Qumul area. The old Uighurs who came to Xinjiang and Gansu switched to local Turkic languages in these respective areas, and Orkhon Uighur died out just like old Turkic and eventually Yenisei Kirghiz.

[Chelubey]

For instance, *J- survives in Karachay-Balkar; whereas in Kazan Tatar it was preserved before- i- (hence Kazan Tatar Jir "earth", Jil "wind"), but changed to y- before other vowels (hence Kazan Tatar yafraq "leaf", yul "road", yïlan "snake", yörek "heart").

There seems to be no strict system.
It seems the literary norm prescribes different pronunciation based on one of the Tatar dialects. At the same time, there extreme dialects exists based mainly on one pronunciation .
I cannot refer to opinion of expert, I read the opinion of a person who is well knowing various Tatar dialects, as well as other Turkic languages. His opinion is : a fusion of different dialects.
You can see this situation in this dictionary.
http://tatar.com.ru/dict/jj.php

jyalt : see the yalt

[axlredneck]

The only people who have pred. Scythian ancestry in Kazakhstan are the Russians. Kazakhs as an ethnic group are very Asian looking therefore Mongols and Kipchak Turks

Lol!

[kalach]

Almost all Turkic steppe peoples are genetically mixed with Mongols. There are historical sources saying that a 30,000 Mongol squad has settled in Turkey. Only Kumyks and Karachais have no connection with Mongols.
Interestingly that Mongolian haplogroups appeared among Turkic peoples living west of the Urals mainly not during the Golden Horde, but much later.

Turkey Turks have very little Mongolian ydna admixture. I guess Mongols killed women they raped here.

[Illyrius]

Central Asian peoples have always been of interest to me to study. What are Kazakhs confirmed to be? Caucasian ot mongoloid/East Asian? Do they look white?
What does a typical Kazakh look like?

Excuse me for my ignorance.

[porpozontokonto]

Turkey Turks have very little Mongolian ydna admixture. I guess Mongols killed women they raped here.

Probably because western Turco-Mongol khaganates had a Mongolic ruling class and a body of commoners that's largely formed by Turkic clans. The further you move away from the Mongolian heartland, the less likely you will see actual Mongols in their own hordes. They just can't seem to be bothered with migrating westwards so they would had to rely on Turkic clansmen. And Medieval Mongols weren't purely C-M130 either.

[kalach]

Probably because western Turco-Mongol khaganates had a Mongolic ruling class and a body of commoners that's largely formed by Turkic clans. The further you move away from the Mongolian heartland, the less likely you will see actual Mongols in their own hordes. They just can't seem to be bothered with migrating westwards so they would had to rely on Turkic clansmen. And Medieval Mongols weren't purely C-M130 either.

I find Turkish nationalists' admiration for Mongols cucked.

[Ymyyakhtakh]

Central Asian peoples have always been of interest to me to study. What are Kazakhs confirmed to be? Caucasian ot mongoloid/East Asian? Do they look white?
What does a typical Kazakh look like?

Excuse me for my ignorance.

Players that seem native or mixed in Kazakhstan's national men's soccer team (excluding players who were missing a photo):



Morph of all 12:



Women from photos classified as being of Kazakhs in Kunstkamera (some persons might be included multiple times, and some might not actually be Kazakh):



My friend Laag is not a fan of Kazakhs or Uzbeks, but I think that at least phenotypically, they are far superior to kebab-type Turks.

[kalach]

Players that seem native or mixed in Kazakhstan's national men's soccer team (excluding players who were missing a photo):



Morph of all 12:



Women from photos classified as being of Kazakhs in Kunstkamera (some persons might be included multiple times, and some might not actually be Kazakh):



My friend Laag is not a fan of Kazakhs or Uzbeks, but I think that at least phenotypically, they are far superior to kebab-type Turks.

Again your mongol loving attitude. The best Mongols for me Native Americans lol.

[Ymyyakhtakh]

I found a description of look of Kypchaks and Uigurs in the 15th (!) century in Chinese sources.
It found in comments to the law governing marriage unions (including with foreigners)
Ming Dynasty Laws:
http://www.vostlit.info/Texts/Dokume...frametext5.htm
Comments:
http://www.vostlit.info/Texts/Dokume...rimtext5.phtml
google translate:

123 . Uighurs and Kipchaks are the most ugly among the Samuzhen ... Uigurs have curly hair and a big nose, Kipchaks have yellow hair and blue eyes. Their appearance is ugly and different [from ours], so ... it happens that the Chinese do not want to marry them.

Chinese racists!!!

Also from the comments: "120. Сэмужэнь - букв. «люди с цветными глазами» - в период Юань общее название для представителей западных, немонгольских народностей, которыми чаще всего были выходцы из Центральной и Средней Азии."

Translation: "120. Semuzhen - letters. "People with colored eyes" - during the Yuan period, the common name for representatives of Western, non-Mongolian peoples, who most often came from Central Asia."

However according to Wikipedia, the name is not actually derived from "colored eyes" but from "assorted categories" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semu):

Semu (Chinese: 色目; pinyin: sèmù) is the name of a caste established by the Yuan dynasty. The Semu categories refers to people who come from Central and West Asia, it is told that there are 31 categories among them. They had come to serve the Yuan dynasty by enfranchising under the dominant Mongol caste. The Semu were not a self-defined and homogeneous ethnic group per se, but one of the four castes of the Yuan dynasty: the Mongols, Semu (or Semuren), the "Han" (Hanren in Chinese, or all subjects of the former Jin dynasty, Dali Kingdom and Koreans) and the Southerners (Nanren in Chinese, or all subjects of the former Southern Song dynasty; sometimes called Manzi). Among the Semu were Buddhist Turpan Uyghurs, Tanguts and Tibetans; Nestorian Christian tribes like the Ongud; Alans; Muslim Central Asian Persian and Turkic peoples including the Khwarazmians and Karakhanids; West Asian Arab, Jewish and other minor groups who are from even further west.

[...]

Contrary to popular belief among both non-Chinese and Chinese, the term "Semu" (interpreted literally as "color-eye") did not imply that caste members had "colored eyes" and it was not a physical description of the people it labelled. It in fact meant "assorted categories" (各色名目, gè sè míng mù), emphasizing the ethnic diversity of Semu people.[1]