So Celts were North Europeans after all?

[J. Ketch]

Either these people stayed pure Northern Bell Beaker-like in Switzerland for 2000 years but had little to no genetic influence on others, or they're misdated.

[Grace O'Malley]

Either these people stayed pure Northern Bell Beaker-like for 2000 years in Switzerland but had little to no genetic influence on others, or they're misdated.

They look like early British and Dutch Bell Beakers as far as their plotting.

[coolfrenchguy]

Here are the coordinates, see by yourself. They are from Swiss Iron Age, probably La Tené culture.

MX188_scaled,0.117238,0.129988,0.059962,0.057494,0 .021235,0.019801,-0.001645,0,-0.006545,-0.008383,0.000487,0.000749,-0.002081,-0.021194,0.013165,0.022142,0.004955,0.002534,-0.002388,0.010505,0.007362,0.003586,-0.003328,0.001205,-0.007544
MX190_scaled,0.126344,0.135065,0.059585,0.062016,0 .025235,0.030399,0.007285,0.008769,-0.008795,-0.002734,-0.009419,0,-0.014271,-0.015276,0.013843,0.008088,0.00352,-0.003674,-0.002011,0.007629,0.003868,0.009892,0.008997,-0.00976,-0.002036
MX192_scaled,0.124067,0.120848,0.066373,0.062339,0 .025235,0.023148,-0.008695,0.004384,-0.006954,-0.001276,0.002598,-0.003597,-0.007879,-0.00812,0.019679,0.021082,0.011995,0.003167,0,0.00 2376,0.00836,0.001607,-0.003944,0.002048,0.002634
MX195_scaled,0.122929,0.120848,0.064865,0.065892,0 .02185,0.026216,-0.00094,0.002538,-0.003068,-0.008201,0,0.002248,-0.010555,-0.008945,0.020629,0.024264,0.008996,-0.005194,-0.005782,0.008379,-0.00262,0.00371,0.000986,0.003012,0.001317

MX188,0.0103,0.0128,0.0159,0.0178,0.0069,0.0071,-0.0007,0,-0.0032,-0.0046,0.0003,0.0005,-0.0014,-0.0154,0.0097,0.0167,0.0038,0.002,-0.0019,0.0084,0.0059,0.0029,-0.0027,0.001,-0.0063
MX190,0.0111,0.0133,0.0158,0.0192,0.0082,0.0109,0. 0031,0.0038,-0.0043,-0.0015,-0.0058,0,-0.0096,-0.0111,0.0102,0.0061,0.0027,-0.0029,-0.0016,0.0061,0.0031,0.008,0.0073,-0.0081,-0.0017
MX192,0.0109,0.0119,0.0176,0.0193,0.0082,0.0083,-0.0037,0.0019,-0.0034,-0.0007,0.0016,-0.0024,-0.0053,-0.0059,0.0145,0.0159,0.0092,0.0025,0,0.0019,0.0067 ,0.0013,-0.0032,0.0017,0.0022
MX195,0.0108,0.0119,0.0172,0.0204,0.0071,0.0094,-0.0004,0.0011,-0.0015,-0.0045,0,0.0015,-0.0071,-0.0065,0.0152,0.0183,0.0069,-0.0041,-0.0046,0.0067,-0.0021,0.003,0.0008,0.0025,0.0011

yes connected to the proto nordic germanic tribes ,in truth they are from the benelux and northern france /germany for the proto celtic tribes they slide down to the south east later in austria/switzerland/east of france/northern italy,the with the hallstatt iron age and the "la téne" culture period ,for example the burgonds as proto-germanic tribe is from southern denmark ,proto-celts and proto-gemanics are really connected they are the cradle of the genuine european civilisation
if you look,after the hercynians they are located in poland,germany,austria and czech republic ,this is after the proto-germanic from the north tribes moves southern,all this it's way before the romanian empire ,so in a larger way yes celts are norther european ,after all it's depend where you are situating your north
proto-germanic tribes core and the halttstat iron age/la téne core


Hercynia

• Eastern Celts^[1]
  
  • Anartes/Anartoi – Celts assimilated by Dacians.^[2] Areas of modern Slovakia and modern Northern Hungary, north of the river Tysia/Tibiscus (Tisza). They lived in the east part of the Hercynia Silva (Hercynian Forest).
  • Boii^[1]– a tribal confederation, originally from today's Bohemia (Western Czech Republic) that dwelt in the Hercynia Silva and dispersed through migrations to other regions of Europe, to areas of modern Slovakia, Germany, Austria, Hungary and Northern Italy.^[3][4]
    
    • Boii tribes of unknown names in the Hercynia Silva - roughly in today's Bohemia
    
    
  • Cotini – areas of modern Slovakia, west of the Anartes, and areas of Western Hungary, south of Lacus Pelsodis/Pelso (Lake Balaton).
  • Lugii – areas of modern southwestern and southern Poland; also may have been a Germanic tribe.
  • Osi/Osii – areas of modern Slovakia^[5]
  • Volcae - a tribal confederation, originally from today's Moravia (Eastern Czech Republic), Central and Upper Danube basin (Slovakia, Austria, Southern Germany), dwelt in Hercynia Silva, north of the Danuvius (Danube), but dispersed through migrations to other regions of Europe (Southern Gaul) and Asia Minor/Anatolia (Galatia).
    
    • Volcae tribes of unknown names in the Hercynia Silva - roughly in today's Moravia.

[Rocinante]

Target: MX195_scaled
Distance: 2.4486% / 0.02448641
50.6 Steppe_Pastoralist
30.6 Early_European_Farmer
11.6 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
5.0 Eastern_Hunter-Gatherer
2.2 Scandinavian_Hunter-Gatherer

Target: MX192_scaled
Distance: 2.5943% / 0.02594313
49.4 Steppe_Pastoralist
32.2 Early_European_Farmer
10.0 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
6.8 Scandinavian_Hunter-Gatherer
1.2 Eastern_Hunter-Gatherer
0.4 Ancient_American

Target: MX190_scaled
Distance: 2.4890% / 0.02488996
54.2 Steppe_Pastoralist
30.0 Early_European_Farmer
15.8 Western_Hunter-Gatherer

Target: MX188_scaled
Distance: 1.7278% / 0.01727845
51.6 Steppe_Pastoralist
32.2 Early_European_Farmer
8.6 Western_Hunter-Gatherer
7.0 Scandinavian_Hunter-Gatherer
0.6 Africa_Mesolithic

[Altaison]

Celts must be really divergent phenotype wise. They had Central European, Northern European and even some darker Southern European look depending on tribe, geography etc.

[Imperator Biff]

Real authentic genuine celts will come out similar to that British like Gaul from empuries (I8206)
They were definitely a lot more northern than those Lech Valley MBA samples but certainly not Scandinavian levels of steppe ancestry.

[JamesBond007]

Real authentic genuine celts will come out similar to that British like Gaul from empuries (I8206)
They were definitely a lot more northern than those Lech Valley MBA samples but certainly not Scandinavian levels of steppe ancestry.

What do you think about the ancient Irish Raithlin sample(s) and English Iron age samples ? Sorry, if this is a stupid question but I'm not an expert on this stuff.

[Gota_type_]

I agree, but prior to the expansion there would have been an original Proto-Celtic people living somewhere. It is settled that Celtic language and culture expanded from Central Europe though, and La Tené is the culture that succeded Hallstatt, which is considered Proto-Celtic. Celtic art in particular is actually La Tené art.

Look at the dark blue: pre-celtic.

I have always seen that they are named pre-celtic or proto-celtic. Maybe here there is the real deal:

[Token]

Either these people stayed pure Northern Bell Beaker-like in Switzerland for 2000 years but had little to no genetic influence on others, or they're misdated.

Let's not exaggerate, they don't have as much steppe as Dutch Beakers. They are just very slightly above North European steppe level. Apparently, if they are indeed Iron Age as Davidski claims, there is a good chance they are from a massive Hallstatt burial (the largest in Switzerland) since this is one of the hugest sites of Iron Age Switzerland. Information on the site posted by an Anthrogenica member: https://www.ag.ch/media/kanton_aarga...en_baerhau.pdf

[Brás Garcia de Mascarenhas]

Distance to:	Viriato
0.02675706	Hallstatt_Celt:DA111
0.03394676	Iberia_BA
0.04533877	Nordic_BA
0.04579137	MX190
0.04849712	Mycenaean
0.05079488	MX192
0.05198288	MX188
0.05247485	MX195
0.05992303	Armenia_MBA
0.06143201	Levant_Canaanite_MBA
0.06946512	North_African
0.08699746	Yoruba