Croat K13 regional (and national) averages

**Jana** · 04-18-2020, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by MoroLP

Done. I presume it is very difficult to have a reliable average for Istria. It varies depending on the part of Istria, different ethnic-cultural mixtures, historical migrations etc., and this is by excluding migrations and mixed marriages since the 1940s. I think that average will change drastically with every new sample.

Croat K13 regional and new national averages will be also included on vahaduo source list? That would be great, you done an excellent job.

Thanks

I'll make Istrian average, update slightly those I have with few new samples and ofcourse add Istrians to Croat and Croat_Croatia averages.
Maybe I should wait until next week end to send to Lucas, to see how many more we will get.

I think very few, we already collected most that are available in my opinion.

Those I made are now on updated Vahaduo, time to celebrate

**Jana** · 04-18-2020, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by Ljubic

Croat from Northeast-Bosnia

Population
North_Atlantic 22.96 Pct
Baltic 36.43 Pct
West_Med 13.75 Pct
West_Asian 7.74 Pct
East_Med 14.87 Pct
Red_Sea 2.02 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.45 Pct
Siberian 1.49 Pct
Amerindian 0.29 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Croat from Mostar (Ljubic ive already posted)

Population
North_Atlantic 29.97 Pct
Baltic 32.70 Pct
West_Med 13.33 Pct
West_Asian 5.87 Pct
East_Med 12.43 Pct
Red_Sea 2.79 Pct
South_Asian 1.14 Pct
East_Asian 0.39 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.27 Pct
Oceanian 1.12 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Croat from Capljina Area 1

Population
North_Atlantic 24.74 Pct
Baltic 31.98 Pct
West_Med 14.99 Pct
West_Asian 9.23 Pct
East_Med 16.08 Pct
Red_Sea 0.36 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.16 Pct
Siberian 1.34 Pct
Amerindian 1.13 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Croat from Capljina Area 2

Population
North_Atlantic 20.78 Pct
Baltic 34.37 Pct
West_Med 14.88 Pct
West_Asian 9.93 Pct
East_Med 18.23 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.14 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.75 Pct
Amerindian 0.76 Pct
Oceanian 0.15 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Croat from Capljina Area 3

Population
North_Atlantic 27.89 Pct
Baltic 29.48 Pct
West_Med 16.13 Pct
West_Asian 7.71 Pct
East_Med 16.87 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.65 Pct
Amerindian 0.83 Pct
Oceanian 0.36 Pct
Northeast_African 0.07 Pct
Sub-Saharan -

Croat Greatuncle from Tomislavgrad

Population
North_Atlantic 27.11 Pct
Baltic 31.59 Pct
West_Med 16.43 Pct
West_Asian 5.42 Pct
East_Med 16.40 Pct
Red_Sea 0.76 Pct
South_Asian 0.43 Pct
East_Asian 0.91 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.82 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.12 Pct

Croat from Lika

Population
North_Atlantic 29.21 Pct
Baltic 33.79 Pct
West_Med 14.03 Pct
West_Asian 6.93 Pct
East_Med 13.13 Pct
Red_Sea 0.79 Pct
South_Asian 0.28 Pct
East_Asian 0.33 Pct
Siberian 0.97 Pct
Amerindian 0.25 Pct
Oceanian 0.28 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Croat from Hercegovina

Population
North_Atlantic 22.19 Pct
Baltic 35.64 Pct
West_Med 16.03 Pct
West_Asian 7.99 Pct
East_Med 14.58 Pct
Red_Sea 0.63 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.92 Pct
Siberian 0.38 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.85 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.79 Pct

Thanks!

I have these 3 from Čapljina and that one from Herzegovina, don't have Lika, Tomislavgrad, NE Bosnia, and Mostar. They will be added.

Is person half NE Bosnia half Herzegovina you posted in the past from your family?
This one:23.37,31.99,15.85,9.54,13.45,3.45,0.64,0.00,0. 75,0.00,0.06,0.06,0.83

**Ljubic** · 04-19-2020, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Est.1992

Thanks!

I have these 3 from Čapljina and that one from Herzegovina, don't have Lika, Tomislavgrad, NE Bosnia, and Mostar. They will be added.

Is person half NE Bosnia half Herzegovina you posted in the past from your family?
This one:23.37,31.99,15.85,9.54,13.45,3.45,0.64,0.00,0. 75,0.00,0.06,0.06,0.83

Thats my father 23andMe V3 restult and he cant be a valid sample because he is 1/4 Serbian. Also did you match these 3 from Capljina?

**Bessarion** · 04-19-2020, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by Est.1992

Distance to: Bessarion

3.55025351 Hungarian
4.72911197 Hungarian_Transdanubia
5.73823143 Croat_Croatia
5.82176090 Croat
6.10909977 Croat_Zagreb
6.12676913 Croat_Central_Croatia
6.32324284 Szekely_Hungarian
6.39854105 Slovenian
6.48832028 Hungarian_East
6.80173507 Croat_Bosnia
6.83046851 Croat_Zagorje
6.85547956 Csango_Gymes
7.04613369 Croat_BiH
7.15785582 Croat_Tropolje
7.25290287 Croat_Lika-Senj
7.33797230 Serbian_Bosnia
7.46277428 Austrian
7.70158425 Moldova_North
7.85049680 Bosniak
8.04870797 Serb_Krajina
8.23479812 Croat_Dalmatia
8.25105908 Bosniak_Sarajevo
8.27340317 Croat_Herzegovina
8.34005396 Serb_Dalmatia
8.45358504 Serb_Croatia

Target: Bessarion
Distance: 1.7552% / 1.75522746 | ADC: 0.25x

49.6 Hungarian_Transdanubia
17.8 Croat_Central_Croatia
16.6 Croat_Zagorje
9.4 Bulgarian_Burgas
6.2 Turk_Targovishte
0.4 Pomak_Central-Macedonia

Target: Bessarion
Distance: 2.3981% / 2.39813029 | ADC: 0.5x

60.2 Hungarian_Transdanubia
31.8 Croat
8.0 Bulgarian_Burgas

Target: Bessarion
Distance: 3.2481% / 3.24807361 | ADC: 1x

66.2 Hungarian_Transdanubia
33.8 Croat

Thanks a lot...

As usual, when calculating with regional data/input getting, as a rule, a Hungarian, which is pretty strong as I see in comparison to other distances (distance).

How do you comment that in almost all tests Hungarians have a very high NW European component?

To me is interestingly from which historical source Croats from Zagorje get also high Northern part. Is it from some more recent AH migration or it is a simple ancient Celtic substrate because this area was within the reach of Hallstatt culture?

**Leto** · 04-19-2020, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by Bessarion

K13

Population
North_Atlantic 32.03 Pct
Baltic 29.73 Pct
West_Med 12.69 Pct
West_Asian 9.03 Pct
East_Med 12.57 Pct
Red_Sea 0.74 Pct
South_Asian 0.19 Pct
East_Asian 0.74 Pct
Siberian 0.78 Pct
Amerindian 1.27 Pct
Oceanian 0.22 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

K15

Population
North_Sea 25.40 Pct
Atlantic 18.20 Pct
Baltic 17.76 Pct
Eastern_Euro 9.24 Pct
West_Med 8.40 Pct
West_Asian 9.74 Pct
East_Med 8.76 Pct
Red_Sea 0.48 Pct
South_Asian 0.10 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.59 Pct
Siberian 0.12 Pct
Amerindian 1.14 Pct
Oceanian 0.06 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

G25 (if you need for database)

B_scaled,0.133173,0.127957,0.047517,0.026809,0.030 775,0.014223,0.005405,0.003,0.000205,-0.003645,-0.005359,-0.001349,0.002081,0.011423,-0.005836,-0.006497,0.001304,0.000887,0.005908,0.007504,0.010 107,-0.004328,-0.000863,0.00723,-0.002994

B_unscaled,0.0117,0.0126,0.0126,0.0083,0.01,0.0051 ,0.0023,0.0013,0.0001,-0.002,-0.0033,-0.0009,0.0014,0.0083,-0.0043,-0.0049,0.001,0.0007,0.0047,0.006,0.0081,-0.0035,-0.0007,0.006,-0.0025

Can you please share the Dodecad K12b components?

**Bessarion** · 04-19-2020, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Leto

Can you please share the Dodecad K12b components?

Here...

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 42.23
2 Atlantic_Med 27.63
3 Caucasus 18.76
4 Gedrosia 5.61
5 Southwest_Asian 3.24
6 East_Asian 1.29

Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Hungarians_Behar @ 6.957142
2 German_Dodecad @ 12.339757
3 Romanians_Behar @ 12.510336
4 Bulgarian_Dodecad @ 14.684443
5 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev @ 15.072104
6 Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad @ 17.618778
7 Dutch_Dodecad @ 19.116018
8 French_Dodecad @ 20.449978
9 French_HGDP @ 20.744167
10 Kent_1000Genomes @ 21.686558
11 CEU30_1000Genomes @ 21.733912
12 English_Dodecad @ 21.966000
13 British_Isles_Dodecad @ 23.132723
14 N_Italian_Dodecad @ 23.489594
15 Ukranians_Yunusbayev @ 23.628162
16 Polish_Dodecad @ 23.668234
17 Swedish_Dodecad @ 23.680651
18 O_Italian_Dodecad @ 23.918798
19 Cornwall_1000Genomes @ 24.268002
20 Norwegian_Dodecad @ 24.357216

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% German_Dodecad +50% Romanians_Behar @ 1.843488

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Belorussian_Behar +25% Pais_Vasco_1000Genomes +25% Turkish_Dodecad @ 1.216997

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Lithuanian_Dodecad + Pais_Vasco_1000Genomes + Turkish_Dodecad + Ukranians_Yunusbayev @ 1.211353
2 Belorussian_Behar + Belorussian_Behar + Pais_Vasco_1000Genomes + Turkish_Dodecad @ 1.216997
3 Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar + Russian_Dodecad @ 1.232883
4 Belorussian_Behar + Pais_Vasco_1000Genomes + Russian_B_Behar + Turkish_Dodecad @ 1.255145
5 Argyll_1000Genomes + Bulgarian_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.263436
6 Argyll_1000Genomes + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + O_Italian_Dodecad + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.316979
7 CEU30_1000Genomes + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.328304
8 Bulgarian_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Orkney_1000Genomes + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.345327
9 English_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.351310
10 Dutch_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar + Russian_Dodecad @ 1.361343
11 Belorussian_Behar + Belorussian_Behar + Pais_Vasco_1000Genomes + Turks_Behar @ 1.371008
12 Bulgarian_Dodecad + CEU30_1000Genomes + O_Italian_Dodecad + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.380990
13 Bulgarian_Dodecad + English_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.393886
14 Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.396001
15 Bulgarian_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Orcadian_HGDP + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.397944
16 Kent_1000Genomes + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.403228
17 Dutch_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.408723
18 Bulgarian_Dodecad + Irish_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.416820
19 Argyll_1000Genomes + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.421489
20 Bulgarian_Dodecad + Dutch_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Russian_Dodecad @ 1.435555

**Leto** · 04-19-2020, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Bessarion

Here...

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 42.23
2 Atlantic_Med 27.63
3 Caucasus 18.76
4 Gedrosia 5.61
5 Southwest_Asian 3.24
6 East_Asian 1.29

Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Hungarians_Behar @ 6.957142
2 German_Dodecad @ 12.339757
3 Romanians_Behar @ 12.510336
4 Bulgarian_Dodecad @ 14.684443
5 Bulgarians_Yunusbayev @ 15.072104
6 Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad @ 17.618778
7 Dutch_Dodecad @ 19.116018
8 French_Dodecad @ 20.449978
9 French_HGDP @ 20.744167
10 Kent_1000Genomes @ 21.686558
11 CEU30_1000Genomes @ 21.733912
12 English_Dodecad @ 21.966000
13 British_Isles_Dodecad @ 23.132723
14 N_Italian_Dodecad @ 23.489594
15 Ukranians_Yunusbayev @ 23.628162
16 Polish_Dodecad @ 23.668234
17 Swedish_Dodecad @ 23.680651
18 O_Italian_Dodecad @ 23.918798
19 Cornwall_1000Genomes @ 24.268002
20 Norwegian_Dodecad @ 24.357216

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% German_Dodecad +50% Romanians_Behar @ 1.843488

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Belorussian_Behar +25% Pais_Vasco_1000Genomes +25% Turkish_Dodecad @ 1.216997

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Lithuanian_Dodecad + Pais_Vasco_1000Genomes + Turkish_Dodecad + Ukranians_Yunusbayev @ 1.211353
2 Belorussian_Behar + Belorussian_Behar + Pais_Vasco_1000Genomes + Turkish_Dodecad @ 1.216997
3 Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar + Russian_Dodecad @ 1.232883
4 Belorussian_Behar + Pais_Vasco_1000Genomes + Russian_B_Behar + Turkish_Dodecad @ 1.255145
5 Argyll_1000Genomes + Bulgarian_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.263436
6 Argyll_1000Genomes + Bulgarians_Yunusbayev + O_Italian_Dodecad + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.316979
7 CEU30_1000Genomes + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.328304
8 Bulgarian_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Orkney_1000Genomes + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.345327
9 English_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.351310
10 Dutch_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar + Russian_Dodecad @ 1.361343
11 Belorussian_Behar + Belorussian_Behar + Pais_Vasco_1000Genomes + Turks_Behar @ 1.371008
12 Bulgarian_Dodecad + CEU30_1000Genomes + O_Italian_Dodecad + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.380990
13 Bulgarian_Dodecad + English_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.393886
14 Mixed_Germanic_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.396001
15 Bulgarian_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Orcadian_HGDP + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.397944
16 Kent_1000Genomes + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.403228
17 Dutch_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.408723
18 Bulgarian_Dodecad + Irish_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.416820
19 Argyll_1000Genomes + O_Italian_Dodecad + Romanians_Behar + Russian_B_Behar @ 1.421489
20 Bulgarian_Dodecad + Dutch_Dodecad + O_Italian_Dodecad + Russian_Dodecad @ 1.435555

Thanks but I asked you only for the components like you did with K13 and K15.

K13

Population
North_Atlantic 32.03 Pct
Baltic 29.73 Pct
West_Med 12.69 Pct
West_Asian 9.03 Pct
East_Med 12.57 Pct
Red_Sea 0.74 Pct
South_Asian 0.19 Pct
East_Asian 0.74 Pct
Siberian 0.78 Pct
Amerindian 1.27 Pct
Oceanian 0.22 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

K15

Population
North_Sea 25.40 Pct
Atlantic 18.20 Pct
Baltic 17.76 Pct
Eastern_Euro 9.24 Pct
West_Med 8.40 Pct
West_Asian 9.74 Pct
East_Med 8.76 Pct
Red_Sea 0.48 Pct
South_Asian 0.10 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.59 Pct
Siberian 0.12 Pct
Amerindian 1.14 Pct
Oceanian 0.06 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

**Jana** · 04-19-2020, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Ljubic

Thats my father 23andMe V3 restult and he cant be a valid sample because he is 1/4 Serbian. Also did you match these 3 from Capljina?

Thanks, I suspected that and that's why I asked.
My father matches them.

**Jana** · 04-19-2020, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Bessarion

Thanks a lot...

As usual, when calculating with regional data/input getting, as a rule, a Hungarian, which is pretty strong as I see in comparison to other distances (distance).

How do you comment that in almost all tests Hungarians have a very high NW European component?

To me is interestingly from which historical source Croats from Zagorje get also high Northern part. Is it from some more recent AH migration or it is a simple ancient Celtic substrate because this area was within the reach of Hallstatt culture?

There was continuous settlement of Germanic tribes in Carpathian Basin trough history (some ever accompanied conquering tribes, also Goths, Gepids, medieval German and Dutch settlers, later Danube Swabians, Saxons in Transylvania). Also Celts were present in the era.

NW Croats have ancient Celtic substrate, they are very unmixed rural Croats for the most part.

**Celine** · 04-19-2020, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Est.1992

There was continuous settlement of Germanic tribes in Carpathian Basin trough history (some ever accompanied conquering tribes, also Goths, Gepids, medieval German and Dutch settlers, later Danube Swabians, Saxons in Transylvania). Also Celts were present in the era.

NW Croats have ancient Celtic substrate, they are very unmixed rural Croats for the most part.

#proud