R1a-z93 in Kyrgyz people. Explanation?

[Illyrius]

Well, Syntashta also sounds Turkic and means a "gravestone". Turkic place names extend from Ukraine to Siberia. Part of the Turkic people has Pazyryk genetics, no doubt, but just the part .

Actually sintashta sounds very Indian to me.

Yeah I agree about that part, there's many Turkic toponyms in the eastern world.
But so are Slavic names in my country but no one's Slavic here

[Bender1999]

First I would like to say I don't have any axes to grind against either Turkics or Iranics since I have ancestry from both just like modern Turks or Azeri so I'll tell it as the evidence supports.

Once upon a time and for a long time Indo-Europeans and Indo-Iranians and their R1a dominated Central Asia and the Eurasian steppe. So basically 3000 year old Andronovo and their 2500 year old Scythian and Sarmatian relatives and their R1a were Indo-Iranian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture Fortunately Iranic languages are quite different from Turkic languages so it's easy to see that Scythians spoke Iranic language.

Also not all East Eurasian admixture in Central or West Asia came from Turkics. For example the East Eurasian admixture in 2500 year old Scythians predated the arrival of Turkics in Central Asia. There are still peoples in Central Asia that didn't adopt Turkic languages. For example in Tajikistan (Tajiks).

So the R1a in Kirgiz is an Indo-Iranian founder effect that survived their Turkification.

The majority of ancestry in West Asian groups such as Azeris and Turks is NOT from Turkics because the original Turkics from Mongolia area were mostly East Eurasian when they moved west from the Altai. In fact , Mongolians and Turks share a proto Mongolic/Turkic language.

The first Turkic Khagnate didn't show up in Central Asia until about 1500 years ago (Gokturks) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples

First Turkics where probably between 20-50% east eurasian, Turks and Azerbaijanis are between 5-20% east eurasian. Probably they were something like Uzbekhs/Turkmens/Nogays/Hazara just more North european shifted. Dont spread nonsense about other people, first deal with your own...

[Zoro]

The Ashina clan migrated from Li-jien (modern Zhelai Zhai) to the Juan Juan seeking inclusion in their confederacy and protection from the prevalent dynasty. The tribe were famed metalsmiths and were granted land near a mountain quarry which looked like a helmet,

It just occurred to me that Ashina sounds similar to pashto Ospina which is iron and in kurdish it’s Asin. Also proto-turkic Ana - grandmom is same in pashto . So it looks like some iranics borrowed turkic words and probably visa versa whereas some iranics totally language shifted to turkic

[Bender1999]

It just occurred to me that Ashina sounds similar to pashto Ospina which is iron and in kurdish it’s Asin. Also proto-turkic Ana - grandmom is same in pashto . So it looks like some iranics borrowed turkic words and probably visa versa whereas some iranics totally language shifted to turkic

Turkics and Iranics have a deep relationship and history with each other but you are just posting nonsense...

[Zoro]

Actually sintashta sounds very Indian to me.

Yeah I agree about that part, there's many Turkic toponyms in the eastern world.
But so are Slavic names in my country but no one's Slavic here

Sanskrit is Indo-Aryan language so it’s connected to Indo-European languages. Yamna is name of river in India Jamna

[Zoro]

Turkics and Iranics have a deep relationship and history with each other but you are just posting nonsense...

?? Can you point out specifically what part of my post is nonsense:

1- Iron is ospina in pashto and asin in kurdish
2- ana is grandmom in pashto and turkic
3- turkic loanwords in iranic and visa versa

If you can’t tell me then your post is nonsense

If

[Bender1999]

?? Can you point out specifically what part of my post is nonsense:

1- Iron is ospina in pashto and asin in kurdish
2- ana is grandmom in pashto and turkic
3- turkic loanwords in iranic and visa versa

If you can’t tell me then your post is nonsense

If

You imply connections which don’t exist. So generally many of your postings are really political influenced, as you a kurd i can understand why you like to deny and underestimate turkics and their history, culture etc. Yes turks and other turkics have iranic influence, but your hints regarding turks like ashina as term is of iranic origin(and i admit there are theories about that) but to connect this word with pashto(and then with kurdish, btw i don’t understand why kurds like to be associated with them, they are related to other iranics the same way)

[Zoro]

You imply connections which don’t exist. So generally many of your postings are really political influenced, as a kurd i can understand why you like to deny and underestimate turkics and their history, culture etc. Yes turks and other turkics have iranic influence, but your hints regarding turks like ashina as term is of iranic origin(and i admit there are theories about that) but to connect this word with pashto(and then with kurdish, btw i don’t understand why kurds like to be associated with them, they are related to other iranics the same way)

Actually i was suggesting the opposite that pashto ospina and kurdish asin may have come from turkic Ashina. It’s only a thought.

Actually I don’t underestimate Turkics. Didn’t i write I don’t have any axes to grind against either turkic or iranic since I clearly have ancestry from both. My y-dna is probably turkic as well as some or most of my EE/Siberian and yes i also know about seljuks and ottoman

[Chelubey]

So the R1a in Kirgiz is an Indo-Iranian founder effect[/B] that survived their Turkification.

Let's clarify something.
Even the Turkic subclades R1a(we do not touch subclades R1b) are very far from the Indo-Iranian subclades (including the Kyrgyz subclades). The common ancestor of the Turkic and Indo-Iranian branches lived about 5000 years ago. If the Kyrgyz subclades were Turkicized 1,500 years ago during the First Turkic Kaganate, they would be very close to the Tajik and Pashtun subclades, but they are very far. The founder's effect, as far as I remember, among the Pashtun z2124 is even greater than among the Kyrgyz : the age of the Kyrgyz branch z2125 is 2100 years , the age of the Pashtun branch z2124 is 1500-1800 years.

Now about Iranian language.
We have one Greek witness of the 3rd century BC, who says that from Persia to Sogd people speak dialects having minimal differences. There is evidence of the 2nd century BC from Chinese source who said that from Persia to Sogd people speak the same language. That is, in the 3rd century BC between the East Iranian and West Iranian languages ​​there were almost no differences. Sogdian is considered a dialect of the Scythian language. However, ancient witnesses restrict the areal of spreading of Iranian languages ​​by Sogd in the north.
Alas, the very early date of divergence of Iranian languages ​​is not confirmed by written sources, and Sogd is the northernmost region of the spreading of Iranian languages in ​​the 3rd century BC according to ancient sources.

[Zoro]

Let's clarify something.
Even the Turkic subclades R1a(we do not touch subclades R1b) are very far from the Indo-Iranian subclades (including the Kyrgyz subclades). The common ancestor of the Turkic and Indo-Iranian branches lived about 5000 years ago. If the Kyrgyz subclades were Turkized 1,500 years ago during the First Turkic Kaganate, they would be very close to the Tajik and Pashtun subclades, but they are very far. The founder's effect, as far as I remember, among the Pashtun z2124 is even greater than among the Kyrgyz : the age of the Kyrgyz branch z2125 is 2100 years , the age of the Pashtun branch z2124 is 1500-1800 years.

Now about Iranian language.
We have one Greek witness of the 3rd century BC, who says that from Persia to Sogd people speak adverbs having minimal differences. There is evidence of the 2nd century BC from Chinese source who said that from Persia to Sogd people speak the same language. That is, in the 3rd century BC between the East Iranian and West Iranian languages ​​there were almost no differences. Sogdian is considered a dialect of the Scythian language. However, ancient witnesses restrict the areal of spreading of Iranian languages ​​by Sogd.
Alas, the very early date of divergence of Iranian languages ​​is not confirmed by written sources, and Sogd is the northernmost region of the spreading of Iranian languages in ​​the 3rd century BC according to ancient sources.

You have some useful points which I don’t disagree with. The rest I need to think about