Dodecad k12b West, Central & South Asian results Vol. 2

[Leto]

Those Seljuks who overrun Iran migrated to Anatolia afterward which resulted in preserving identifications of non-Turkic communities in the region. On the other hand, that formerly Seljuk population Turkified Anatolia. It is the Safavid-Ottoman conflict that completed the Azerbaijani formation in the region thanks to the expelling of Alevi Turkmens from Anatolia.

The question is genetic of these Seljuks who passed Iran and Turkified Anatolia. Modern Farsi carries up to 20% Turkic admixture(a role here recent mixes with Azerbaijani and previous invasions) and some other elements from Khorasan. In this sense, it is clear that Persian genome has been changed through time. What if MA2196 is actually half medieval Persian? It would be a good candidate for the Seljuk period as my results suggest. Even if these Seljuks were still pure Central Asian when they entered the Anatolia which is unlikely from my perspective when looking into the modern DNA of Turks, MA2196 is still a good proxy for what Kyp said.

Modern Persians are up to 20% Turkic? As far as I know non-Azeri Iranians are 1-3% EE only, minus a few outliers.

[Sora]

I guess Early Anatolian Turkmens were like today's Afghan Turkmens or Uzbekistani Turkmens and early Oghuz were less Mongoloid than Karluks & Karakhanids. Because none of today's Oghuz folks(except Afghan & Uzbekistani Turkmens) are more Mongoloid than 30%.

You can use these samples & modellings on determining Turkic ancestry:











*Source: Turkish DNA Project

[Kaspias]

Modern Persians are up to 20% Turkic? As far as I know non-Azeri Iranians are 1-3% EE only, minus a few outliers.

[Bender1999]

Difficult topic, but in general most Turks were mobile even until much later time. Travelers from the medievals said that the cities in NW Iran were mostly populated by non-Turks.

Target: Azerbaijani
Distance: 2.4499% / 2.44990879 | ADC: 0.25x
48.2 Iranian
25.4 Ottoman1400
23.4 Udi_Azerbaijan3
3.0 Armenian_East

I once read that mostly Tebriz and Urmia region were settled by Oghuz tribes during Seljuks, because they liked the climate and geographical conditions.

There were a lot of migration to and from Anatolia(same counts for Azerbaijan and Chorasan). Turks were mobile, i think we need very early Oghuz samples. Or just look at some subgroups of Anatolian and Azerbaijani Turks, which are 50% non Turkic 50% Turkic. They are between 15-20% east eurasian influenced. Whats about Pechengs for example? Or Khwarezemid? Even there are theories that Khazars were of Oghuz origin? Dont we have samples of them?

[Leto]

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/jRYdn0g/r.png

Well, then the whole Turkicness looks kinda bogus to me. At least the way people try to measure it. For example Tajiks are Iranic but more Mongoloid than Azerbaijanis who are Turkic. Not to mention Hazara people.

[Bender1999]

Well, then the whole Turkicness looks kinda bogus to me. For example Tajiks are Iranic but more Mongoloid than Azerbaijanis who are Turkic.

Not all, there are many in Afghanistan who are nearly no mongoloid. In Tadjikistan they are because there are numerous Uzbeks and they marry with each other, both people have better relationship than to their related people there. Also the Tadjik culture is dominant there, many Uzbeks are speaking mostly Tadjik and some are assimilated. In Anatolia and Azerbaijan the Turkic is ruling, although both were essential influenced by other cultures(funnily by Iranics for example).

[Kaspias]

Well, then the whole Turkicness looks kinda bogus to me. For example Tajiks are Iranic but more Mongoloid than Azerbaijanis who are Turkic.

Persians were allies of Seljuks, and still kind of allies with Azerbaijani in the society. Both recent and ancient mixing happened. In addition, Turkmen_Uzbekistan is the closest sample in G25 SS to Oghuz(I could use ancient samples here, but the result would be close to this one). There is nothing surprising tbh.

Tajiks are a totally different story.

[Leto]

Not all, there are many in Afghanistan who are nearly no mongoloid. In Tadjikistan they are because there are numerous Uzbeks and they marry with each other, both people have better relationship than to their related people there. Also the Tadjik culture is dominant there, many Uzbeks are speaking mostly Tadjik and some are assimilated. In Anatolia and Azerbaijan the Turkic is ruling, although both were essential influenced by other cultures(funnily by Iranics for example).

No Mongoloid in Afghanistan? No way. The Eurogenes Afg Tajik is nearly 20% EE. Maybe people in Herat or just Persianized Pashtuns have low Mongoloid but still I think 5% would be the minimum.

[Kyp]

No Mongoloid in Afghanistan? No way. The Eurogenes Afg Tajik is nearly 20% EE. Maybe people in Herat or just Persianized Pashtuns have low Mongoloid but still I think 5% would be the minimum.

I think Herat actually has more Mongoloid than other Tajik regions (according to Afghan user Avicenna)

Also hazara are descendants of Mongols who speak Iranian. Different story.

[Leto]

Yes, I have to agree, the Tajik example is inadequate because the Tajiks in Tajikistan are a (post)-Soviet nation and in Afghanistan it's a different thing and not a homogeneous group.