Macedonian Gedmatch kits - 28

[Ion Basescul]

In Bosnia/Serbia/Croatia/Montenegro, the ethnic Vlachs were assimilated and lost their language back in the 12th century, and since then it was only a class.
The Vlachs in Macedonia/Albania/Greece/South Bulgaria kept their ethnic identity (Arman/Aromanian) and language until recently. It's definitely a real ethnic group.

However, autosomally they look completely equalized with their surrounding populations.

The thing is people from the northern parts of Greece (both Greeks and Aromanians) seem to have higher Baltic than Macedonians and South Bulgarians.

look at this result:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...dmatch-Results

this person has almost 28% Baltic, and Macedonians don't go above 25 according to Johnny's resutls.

Some kind of mutts probably...I recall the original Macedonians on Davidski's Global 25 ( not sure if they are still there), who were more Northern than Romanians and Serbs.

[JohnnyP]

In Bosnia/Serbia/Croatia/Montenegro, the ethnic Vlachs were assimilated and lost their language back in the 12th century, and since then it was only a class.
The Vlachs in Macedonia/Albania/Greece/South Bulgaria kept their ethnic identity (Arman/Aromanian) and language until recently. It's definitely a real ethnic group.

However, autosomally they look completely equalized with their surrounding populations.

The thing is people from the most northern parts of Greece (both Greeks and Aromanians) seem to have higher Baltic than Macedonians and South Bulgarians.

look at this result:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...dmatch-Results

this person has almost 28% Baltic, and Macedonians don't go above 25 according to Johnny's resutls.

In fact i got few from Skopje and Kumanovo with 25 Baltic , but i didn't get any answer yet if they are Macedonians or mixed with Serbs or other Yugoslavs.

And btw your posted Greek result its not seems Greek at all, Greeks from region Macedonia don't have results like that at all , i have seen many, no way 28 Baltic, and his y-dna...

[vbnetkhio]

Some kind of mutts probably...I recall the original Macedonians on Davidski's Global 25 ( not sure if they are still there), who were more Northern than Romanians and Serbs.

They are still in the official sheet. On Vahaduo, Lucas replaced them with some better samples.

Almost all of those macedonian academic samples have recent North Serbian , Bosniak and Montenegrin ancestry. You can see by their close 3/4 generation matches on gedmatch.
the biggest outlier is "Macedonian3", he matches people from Bosnia of all 3 ethnicites, and no Macedonians.
Macedonia was a part of Yugoslavia, so it makes sense that if you take samples in the capital there will be a lot of such samples.

That result was found by Kaspias on gedmatch, apparently it's a northern Greek with no foreign ancestry.
There are also these northern Greek academic samples:

GreeceMaced2,19.34,24.91,17.65,13.91,20.42,1.85,0,0.01,1.68,0.03,0,0.01,0.19
GreeceMaced3,21.57,19.62,17.77,14.14,22.53,2.52,0.13,0.28,1.25,0.01,0.19,0,0
GreeceMaced4,16.45,24.84,19.74,10.52,25.15,1.99,1.1,0.08,0.01,0,0.13,0,0
GreeceMaced8,20.94,22.28,20.07,12.01,20.41,0.57,1.03,0.97,0.93,0.03,0.74,0,0.01

according to Johnny's samples, around 25% Baltic is nonexistent in the parts of Macedonia closer to Greece, and here are 2 such samples. So they don't seem to have recent Macedonian ancestry, and any ancestry from even further north is unlikely for Greeks.

not just the academics, according to Kaspias, Greeks with confirmed full ancestry from the mountainous part of Greek Macedonia are really like this.

[vbnetkhio]

In fact i got few from Skopje and Kumanovo with 25 Baltic , but i didn't get any answer yet if they are Macedonians or mixed with Serbs or other Yugoslavs.

And btw your posted Greek result its not seems Greek at all, Greeks from region Macedonia don't have results like that at all , i have seen many, no way 28 Baltic, and his y-dna...

Greek Macedonia includes 2 genetically diferent regions. The coastal areas (Chalkidiki) and the mountainous part. The ones from the mountainous region are more Slavic than your Macedonian samples.

[JohnnyP]

They are still in the official sheet. On Vahaduo, Lucas replaced them with some better samples.

Almost all of those macedonian academic samples have recent North Serbian , Bosniak and Montenegrin ancestry. You can see by their close 3/4 generation matches on gedmatch.
the biggest outlier is "Macedonian3", he matches people from Bosnia of all 3 ethnicites, and no Macedonians.
Macedonia was a part of Yugoslavia, so it makes sense that if you take samples in the capital there will be a lot of such samples.

That result was found by Kaspias on gedmatch, apparently it's a northern Greek with no foreign ancestry.
There are also these northern Greek academic samples:

GreeceMaced2,19.34,24.91,17.65,13.91,20.42,1.85,0,0.01,1.68,0.03,0,0.01,0.19
GreeceMaced3,21.57,19.62,17.77,14.14,22.53,2.52,0.13,0.28,1.25,0.01,0.19,0,0
GreeceMaced4,16.45,24.84,19.74,10.52,25.15,1.99,1.1,0.08,0.01,0,0.13,0,0
GreeceMaced8,20.94,22.28,20.07,12.01,20.41,0.57,1.03,0.97,0.93,0.03,0.74,0,0.01

according to Johnny's samples, around 25% Baltic is nonexistent in the parts of Macedonia closer to Greece, and here are 2 such samples. So they don't seem to have recent Macedonian ancestry, and any ancestry from even further north is unlikely for Greeks.

not just the academics, according to Kaspias, Greeks with confirmed full ancestry from the mountainous part of Greek Macedonia are really like this.

Yeah , I mention few times, I'm posting only full Macedonian results, i have many Macedo-Serb results with 28-29 Baltic from Skopje,also you need to understand that North part of Greece is mix of many ethnicities, Slavophone Macedonians, Bulgarians, Vlachs,Turks, Pontiaks, maybe even Serbs. I have good example for Macedonians from Bitola and Lerin (Northwest part of Greece) results.


Population
North_Atlantic 20.28 Pct
Baltic 21.94 Pct
West_Med 18.56 Pct
West_Asian 10.83 Pct
East_Med 24.93 Pct
Red_Sea 2.39 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.35 Pct
Amerindian 0.36 Pct
Oceanian 0.10 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.26 Pct



Population
North_Atlantic 21.83 Pct
Baltic 20.04 Pct
West_Med 23.42 Pct
West_Asian 12.14 Pct
East_Med 17.98 Pct
Red_Sea 2.16 Pct
South_Asian 0.06 Pct
East_Asian 0.65 Pct
Siberian 0.08 Pct
Amerindian 0.3 Pct
Oceanian 0.97 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.36 Pct




Population
North_Atlantic 22.02 Pct
Baltic 21.71 Pct
West_Med 21.32 Pct
West_Asian 9.84 Pct
East_Med 21.69 Pct
Red_Sea 2.18 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.43 Pct
Siberian 0.11 Pct
Amerindian 0.7 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -


Population
North_Atlantic 24.33 Pct
Baltic 21.25 Pct
West_Med 20.48 Pct
West_Asian 9.71 Pct
East_Med 20.33 Pct
Red_Sea 2.29 Pct
South_Asian 0.71 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.65 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.1 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.09 Pct




Idk but to me it seems someone here is skeptical about my thread, i posted more than 200 kits you can check them all on your own(for people who thing this is not legit).Anyways i will stop to post more kits unless there is some different ones from these i already posted because its pointless anymore to continue posting these 3-4 types of results.
Cheers!

Also i dont understand why Macedonian results needs to be more Baltic than Greeks from MAcedonia region ?

[Ion Basescul]

They are still in the official sheet. On Vahaduo, Lucas replaced them with some better samples.

Almost all of those macedonian academic samples have recent North Serbian , Bosniak and Montenegrin ancestry. You can see by their close 3/4 generation matches on gedmatch.
the biggest outlier is "Macedonian3", he matches people from Bosnia of all 3 ethnicites, and no Macedonians.
Macedonia was a part of Yugoslavia, so it makes sense that if you take samples in the capital there will be a lot of such samples.

That result was found by Kaspias on gedmatch, apparently it's a northern Greek with no foreign ancestry.
There are also these northern Greek academic samples:

GreeceMaced2,19.34,24.91,17.65,13.91,20.42,1.85,0,0.01,1.68,0.03,0,0.01,0.19
GreeceMaced3,21.57,19.62,17.77,14.14,22.53,2.52,0.13,0.28,1.25,0.01,0.19,0,0
GreeceMaced4,16.45,24.84,19.74,10.52,25.15,1.99,1.1,0.08,0.01,0,0.13,0,0
GreeceMaced8,20.94,22.28,20.07,12.01,20.41,0.57,1.03,0.97,0.93,0.03,0.74,0,0.01

according to Johnny's samples, around 25% Baltic is nonexistent in the parts of Macedonia closer to Greece, and here are 2 such samples. So they don't seem to have recent Macedonian ancestry, and any ancestry from even further north is unlikely for Greeks.

not just the academics, according to Kaspias, Greeks with confirmed full ancestry from the mountainous part of Greek Macedonia are really like this.

Which is why I always say that no component on K13, maybe apart from South Asian and SSA, should be looked at in isolation. That sample GreeceMaced4 with only 16% Atlantic but 25% Baltic is as Southern as GreeceMaced3 and more than the other two.

[vbnetkhio]

With these new averages my father doesnt get a Macedonian reference in his population list until number 17. Something is very very wrong here.

that doesn't mean much.
in k13, individuals can range +-5 from the average in each component, and still be pure members of that population with no foreign ancestry.

your dad has much less than 5 differnce with each component from Johnny's average:

paradox father	25.95	23.56	16.11	9.72	19.35	3.09	0	0	1.2	0.27	0.53	0.21	0
Macedonian average	22.14	21.18	20.02	11.03	21.55	2.24	0.25	0.34	0.43	0.38	0.35	0.04	0.06
difference	3.81	2.38	3.91	1.31	2.2	0.85	0.25	0.34	0.77	0.11	0.18	0.17	0.06

there is just a very big number of southern Balkan(Albanian, Macedonian, Greek) averages in the sheet, which are all very similar to each other, and your father is by accident closer to some than the other.

I'm referring to his k13 averages .

the best way to check the validity of averages is to check how multiple independent sources align. johnnyP is one source.

You could make 3 Macedonian k13 averages from another 3 independent sources and compare them:
1 k13 results of Macedonian apricity members: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-eurogenes-k13
2 the k13 results of these Macedonians https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ent-on-the-map
3 Macedonian k13 results posted on Anthrogenica, Eupedia and Apricity (except those posted in this thread), search on google for example "Eupedia Macedonian Eurogenes results" you should find a dozen of them.

I don't have time for this now, but you could run this study.

[JohnnyP]

that doesn't mean much.
in k13, individuals can range +-5 from the average in each component, and still be pure members of that population with no foreign ancestry.

your dad has much less than 5 differnce with each component from Johnny's average:

pardox father	25.95	23.56	16.11	9.72	19.35	3.09	0	0	1.2	0.27	0.53	0.21	0
Macedonian average	22.14	21.18	20.02	11.03	21.55	2.24	0.25	0.34	0.43	0.38	0.35	0.04	0.06
difference	3.81	2.38	3.91	1.31	2.2	0.85	0.25	0.34	0.77	0.11	0.18	0.17	0.06

there is just a very big number of southern Balkan(Albanian, Macedonian, Greek) averages in the sheet, which are all very similar to each other, and your father is by accident closer to some than the other.



the best way to check the validity of averages is to check how multiple independent sources align. johnnyP is one source.

You could make 3 Macedonian k13 averages from another 3 independent sources and compare them:
1 k13 results of Macedonian apricity members: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-eurogenes-k13
2 the k13 results of these Macedonians https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ent-on-the-map
3 Macedonian k13 results posted on Anthrogenica, Eupedia and Apricity (except those posted in this thread), search on google for example "Eupedia Macedonian Eurogenes results" you should find a dozen of them.

I don't have time for this now, but you could run this study.

All kits of these threads are included here and in averages

[vbnetkhio]

Which is why I always say that no component on K13, maybe apart from South Asian and SSA, should be looked at in isolation. That sample GreeceMaced4 with only 16% Atlantic but 25% Baltic is as Southern as GreeceMaced3 and more than the other two.

each population has a "NA+Baltic range", true, but there is also a specific NA range, and a specific Baltic range.
a Greek Macedonian could never be 10% NA and 30% Baltic, right?

So if Southern Macedonians don't get 25% Baltic on a pretty large sample, and these do, there's a difference.
It doesn't matter if some Southern Macedonians have a "NA+Baltic" just as high as these samples.

[Ion Basescul]

each population has a "NA+Baltic range", true, but there is also a specific NA range, and a specific Baltic range.
a Greek Macedonian could never be 10% NA and 30% Baltic, right?

So if Southern Macedonians don't get 25% Baltic on a pretty large sample, and these do, there's a difference.
It doesn't matter if some Southern Macedonians have a "NA+Baltic" just as high as these samples.

Because 10-30 is impossible with the available pops in the region, but 16-24 is doable.
I don't really get the big fuss here, because Johnny's average from Vardar region, which is in the South, scores an average of 44% NA+Baltic and that's more Northern than the average of those 4 Greeks from Macedonia region.