What are the "German East" samples on G25 Vahaduo?

[Jana]

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[Peterski]

There are probably genuine Germans in upper Silesia I guess

Yes and they were even the majority of inhabitants in several (around five) Counties/Kreise. For example according to 1834 census:

County - percent of Germans

Neisse - 99.9%
Grottkau - 99.9%
Leobschütz - 93.1%
Falkenberg - 78.7%
Neustadt an der Prudnik - 49.9%
Cosel - 28.6% [in this county Germans rose to 42.3% in 1846 census, but then dropped back to 15.9% in 1861 census, weird! ]
Kreuzburg - 26.1%
Oppeln - 21.9%
Ratibor - 13.0%
Tost-Gleiwitz - 10.9%
Rybnik - 9.0%
Rosenberg - 8.0%
Groß Strehlitz - 7.8%
Lublinitz - 7.0%
Pless - 6.9%
Beuthen - 5.3%

Source (proportion of Polish and German population by county):

D. = Germans
P. = Poles

https://i.imgur.com/cExEpbm.png

Interesting. But I think lower Silesia had much more of genuine ethnic Germans than upper one, did it not?

Depends in which sub-region (that's why I suggest you should sub-divide Lower Silesia, if you have enough samples). As I wrote above probably the mountainous part (near the Sudeten Mountains) is the least Slavic. And parts of Lower Silesia on the right bank of the Oder River (between the Oder and Poland) are the most Slavic.

Barthel Stein in his description of Silesia published in 1513 ("Descriptio Tocius Silesie et Civitatis Regie Vratislaviensis") wrote:

"(...) Zwei Volksstämme, die sich nicht nur nach ihren Wohnsitzen, sondern auch nach ihren Sitten scheiden, bewohnen es; den nach Westen und Süden gelegenen Theil nehmen die Deutschen ein, den Theil nach Osten und Norden zu die Polenö beide trennt als eine ganz sichere Grenze die Oder von der Neißemündung ab, sodaß auch in den Städten diesseits die deutsche, jenseits die polnische Sprach vorherrscht. Man erkennt zwischen beiden Völkern einen starken Gegensatz. (...)"

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And according to R. Böckh (the same one who published that data for Upper Silesia which I posted above) in year 1869 there were still 448 Polish-majority settlements (Ortschaften), villages and towns, in Lower Silesia. Mainly in the north-eastern corner of Lower Silesia.

Böckh called the area of Lower Silesia where Polish-speakers were the majority "das polnische Nieder-Schlesien".

Part (but not all) of this territory was actually added to Poland in 1919 after the Treaty of Versaiilles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former...ces_after_1918

[Peterski]

Person you are discussing is German nationalist from Upper Silesia iirc.

Genetically he is Polish, doesn't matter what he feels - if I give you e.g. Władysław Anders DNA sample (his parents - Albert Anders & Elisabeth Tauchert - were Baltic Germans) to represent ethnic Poles, will you accept? Definitely a Polish nationalist, but autosomally he was probably fully Baltic German.

There can even be Turks who are German nationalists, as Germany has a huge Turkish population.

This case reminds me of Italians from Istria.

Are Italians from Istria genetically Slavic? Seriously? Where is evidence?

Didn't large amount of Poles in upper Silesia germanised rather late?

The family we're talking about probably stayed in Poland after 1945 (which required being verified as Polish - and that was not so easy, there had to be efforts made by them, they had to apply for verification of their Polishness, etc.) and became Germanized only after emigrating to Germany decades later.

Rothaer might ask him if his family could even speak German before moving to Germany.

Or did they learn German language only after moving from Poland to Germany?

Not declared Pole, despite his results.

If his family stayed in Poland after 1945 (rather than being deported to Germany) it means they declared themselves as Poles and it was verified.

It required some effort and a will to be recognized as Polish on their part.

And why they later changed their mind and emigrated to Germany - probably because Poland became dirt poor after decades of Communist rule.

Most of the "Spätaussiedler" are economic opportunists.

[Jana]

Are Italians from Istria genetically Slavic? Seriously? Where is evidence?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidia_Bastianich

Although she and her family are nationally Italian, public DNA tests conducted by Lidia have shown that her family is largely of Eastern European descent, due to the multiethnicity of Istria

A DNA test whose results were displayed on the show Finding Your Roots with Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (2016) stated that Joe’s mother’s genetic ancestry is:

*63% Eastern Europe
*28% Italy & Greece
*6% Europe West
*3% Trace Region

[Peterski]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidia_Bastianich

Although she and her family are nationally Italian, public DNA tests conducted by Lidia have shown that her family is largely of Eastern European descent, due to the multiethnicity of Istria

A DNA test whose results were displayed on the show Finding Your Roots with Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (2016) stated that Joe’s mother’s genetic ancestry is:

*63% Eastern Europe
*28% Italy & Greece
*6% Europe West
*3% Trace Region

Very interesting, but this is just one sample, maybe others are different?

[Luke35]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidia_Bastianich

Although she and her family are nationally Italian, public DNA tests conducted by Lidia have shown that her family is largely of Eastern European descent, due to the multiethnicity of Istria

A DNA test whose results were displayed on the show Finding Your Roots with Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (2016) stated that Joe’s mother’s genetic ancestry is:

*63% Eastern Europe
*28% Italy & Greece
*6% Europe West
*3% Trace Region

Sort of related, don't mean to shift the thread, but I found this interesting..

Micky Dolenz's (of The Monkees fame) father, born Jure Dolenc, came from Trieste. I read on Wiki that he was from an ethnic Slovene community. However, in a recent interview Micky referred to his father's side of the family as Italians. I would guess his Trieste side has notable Slavic admix, in spite being "Italian".

[Jana]

Very interesting, but this is just one sample, maybe others are different?

Where are your promised samples? Not the first time you don't keep your word.

Sort of related, don't mean to shift the thread, but I found this interesting..

Micky Dolenz's (of The Monkees fame) father, born Jure Dolenc, came from Trieste. I read on Wiki that he was from an ethnic Slovene community. However, in a recent interview Micky referred to his father's side of the family as Italians. I would guess his Trieste side has notable Slavic admix, in spite being "Italian".

Dolec is purely Slovene family name, and Jure purely Slovene first name. Looks like italianized Slovenian.

[Jana]

Her, it is grandmother of Simon_W.

I will post it later today (afternoon).

From which counties / Kreise of West Prussia and Upper Silesia?

Okay, I will post.

Now I'm on my phone, I will be back home later today.

yes, you will....

[Peterski]

Where are your promised samples?

GEDmatch stopped working, when I try to check kits in calculators, I get:

"AJAX error: Internal Server ErrorText Status: error Response Text: An internal server error occurred. Please try again later."

[Jana]

GEDmatch stopped working, when I try to check kits in calculators, I get:

"AJAX error: Internal Server ErrorText Status: error Response Text: An internal server error occurred. Please try again later."

You promised to post two days ago, and gedmatch worked perfectly than.