Large-Scale Migration into Southern Britain During the Middle to Late Bronze Age

[J. Ketch]

Can you post the coordinates for this model.

Germanic,51.14,28.61,9.91,5.60,1.73,0.43,0.42,0.36,0.64,0.91,0.15,0.01,0.10
Slavic,29.37,49.40,7.59,3.87,4.98,1.44,0.97,0.18,1.32,0.18,0.38,0.20,0.13
Gaulish,42.85,16.74,22.72,4.28,9.36,1.58,0.63,0.27, 0.34,0.47,0.31,0.25,0.21
Insular_Celtic,53.20,22.52,12.53,6.87,0.94,0.60,1.43,0.09,0.42,0.82,0.31,0.07,0.14
Balkanic,21.26,20.34,19.00,11.77,22.61,3.09,0.18,0.47,0.47,0.41,0.38,0.04,0.00
Roman,26.51,11.18,22.71,10.53,23.91,3.64,0.25,0. 23,0.1,0.24,0.32,0.24,0.11
Finnic,34.17,47.69,4.43,2.21,0.65,0.42,0.53,0.96,6.48,0.90,0.81,0.50,0.26
Baltic,26.74,58.36,6.41,2.73,0.78,1.1,0.77,0.09,1 .43,0.73,0.32,0.33,0.22
SSA,0.07,0.06,0.08,0.07,0.10,0.13,0.08,0.07,0.22,0.07,0.33,13.01,85.70

[Purple Panther]

The region in question housed the last Britonnic kingdom outside Wales, Strathclyde/Alt Clut, so that must be further indication about that trait being a chief one among island Celts.

That's a good point, and people, from Southwest Scotland, often are a mix of Briton and Gaelic. They're biceltic. ;-)

[Peterski]

Over 20% of Wales population was born in England

If some geneticists used DNA samples from England-born people living in Wales to represent their Welsh reference population, then they must be idiots.

BTW Tooting Carmen also lives in Wales and he is half Latin American and half British (probably not Welsh), maybe let's use his DNA to represent Wales?

[J. Ketch]

It's probably more that Welsh are mixed with English, not so much 'Anglo-Saxons'/Germanics directly. Wales has been part of the Kingdom of England for over 700 years. Edward I built a Ring of Iron of fortified towns around Wales and settled them with English, and some of South Wales had been re-settled even before that I think, and in more modern Industrial times you have more English migration there, why so many Welsh have English surnames. Monmouthshire was nominally considered an English county until the 19th/20th century.

Correcting myself, Wales was only annexed into the Kingdom of England in 1542, before that it was a client state (Principality) of the Crown, with settlement. But parts of modern Wales were part of England at that time. Cornwall had been absorbed into the English Kingdom before the Norman conquest.

[Peterski]

Western Wales must be less English-admixed than Eastern Wales:

https://www.open.edu/openlearn/peopl...-section-2.1.2



^^^
"Regional differentiation in Wales

Despite the country’s compact size, scholars of modern Wales have frequently stressed the depth of its internal divisions and differences, which mean that people living in different parts of the country face a range of contrasting conditions and experiences. Consequently it has been suggested that there are some fundamental differences of perception and interest which tend to divide rather than connect the people of Wales. An influential attempt to capture these variations is Denis Balsom’s three-Wales model (1985), which distinguishes between Welsh Wales, British Wales and y Fro Gymraeg (see Figure 3).

Basing his analysis on answers to survey questions, Balsom focused on two key measures: whether or not a person spoke Welsh, and whether or not he or she identified as ‘Welsh’, ‘British’, or something else. By combining these indicators he was able to divide Wales into three distinct types of area, which had different cultural and political characteristics associated with distinct social groupings.

According to Balsom:

The Welsh-speaking, Welsh identifying group is perhaps most distinctive and largely centred upon the north and west of Wales. This area is designated y Fro Gymraeg. The Welsh-identifying, non-Welsh-speaking group is most prevalent in the traditional south Wales area and labelled Welsh Wales. The British identifying non- Welsh speaking group dominates the remainder of Wales, described therefore as British Wales."

[J. Ketch]

Western Wales must be less English-admixed than Eastern Wales:

https://www.open.edu/openlearn/peopl...-section-2.1.2



^^^
"Regional differentiation in Wales

Despite the country’s compact size, scholars of modern Wales have frequently stressed the depth of its internal divisions and differences, which mean that people living in different parts of the country face a range of contrasting conditions and experiences. Consequently it has been suggested that there are some fundamental differences of perception and interest which tend to divide rather than connect the people of Wales. An influential attempt to capture these variations is Denis Balsom’s three-Wales model (1985), which distinguishes between Welsh Wales, British Wales and y Fro Gymraeg (see Figure 3).

Basing his analysis on answers to survey questions, Balsom focused on two key measures: whether or not a person spoke Welsh, and whether or not he or she identified as ‘Welsh’, ‘British’, or something else. By combining these indicators he was able to divide Wales into three distinct types of area, which had different cultural and political characteristics associated with distinct social groupings.

According to Balsom:

The Welsh-speaking, Welsh identifying group is perhaps most distinctive and largely centred upon the north and west of Wales. This area is designated y Fro Gymraeg. The Welsh-identifying, non-Welsh-speaking group is most prevalent in the traditional south Wales area and labelled Welsh Wales. The British identifying non- Welsh speaking group dominates the remainder of Wales, described therefore as British Wales."

Pembroke as part of British Wales, aka 'Little England beyond Wales', probably has significant Flemish blood from the Middle Ages.

[Grace O'Malley]

Germanic,51.14,28.61,9.91,5.60,1.73,0.43,0.42,0.36,0.64,0.91,0.15,0.01,0.10
Slavic,29.37,49.40,7.59,3.87,4.98,1.44,0.97,0.18,1.32,0.18,0.38,0.20,0.13
Gaulish,42.85,16.74,22.72,4.28,9.36,1.58,0.63,0.27, 0.34,0.47,0.31,0.25,0.21
Insular_Celtic,53.20,22.52,12.53,6.87,0.94,0.60,1.43,0.09,0.42,0.82,0.31,0.07,0.14
Balkanic,21.26,20.34,19.00,11.77,22.61,3.09,0.18,0.47,0.47,0.41,0.38,0.04,0.00
Roman,26.51,11.18,22.71,10.53,23.91,3.64,0.25,0. 23,0.1,0.24,0.32,0.24,0.11
Finnic,34.17,47.69,4.43,2.21,0.65,0.42,0.53,0.96,6.48,0.90,0.81,0.50,0.26
Baltic,26.74,58.36,6.41,2.73,0.78,1.1,0.77,0.09,1 .43,0.73,0.32,0.33,0.22
SSA,0.07,0.06,0.08,0.07,0.10,0.13,0.08,0.07,0.22,0.07,0.33,13.01,85.70

Model above gives me this.

Target: Grace
Distance: 231.3195% / 2.31319512
53.2 Germanic
46.0 Insular_Celtic
0.8 Balkanic

[Ezio Auditore]

Target: Ezio
Distance: 788.7436% / 7.88743612
77.6 Gaulish
21.0 Roman
1.4 SSA

[Flashball]

The Gauls were descriibed by the Romans as northern-looking, so writing "Gallic/Iberian", as if they were equivalents, makes no sense. Check the K36 of Channel Islands Iron Age population (which is probably a good proxy for Armoricans). They were pretty much identical as modern North French, except for Breton-speaking part of Bretagne (remember that people in Eastern Bretagne speak Gallo, and they never spoke Breton in this part - around Rennes).

You were probably right that IA Britain is necessary to model Bretons, but it only applies to West Bretagne (Breton-speaking part).

Gaulish was not a people with ''homogeneous look''.

My father is genetically very close to a Northern Gaulish and he looks like Deniro, its a native phenotype from his ancestors.

Gaulish was diverse at the level if phenotypes, ''northern looking'' doesn't means anything without the context. Pretty subjective, in part, also.

[Defcon2]

Germanic,51.14,28.61,9.91,5.60,1.73,0.43,0.42,0.36,0.64,0.91,0.15,0.01,0.10
Slavic,29.37,49.40,7.59,3.87,4.98,1.44,0.97,0.18,1.32,0.18,0.38,0.20,0.13
Gaulish,42.85,16.74,22.72,4.28,9.36,1.58,0.63,0.27, 0.34,0.47,0.31,0.25,0.21
Insular_Celtic,53.20,22.52,12.53,6.87,0.94,0.60,1.43,0.09,0.42,0.82,0.31,0.07,0.14
Balkanic,21.26,20.34,19.00,11.77,22.61,3.09,0.18,0.47,0.47,0.41,0.38,0.04,0.00
Roman,26.51,11.18,22.71,10.53,23.91,3.64,0.25,0. 23,0.1,0.24,0.32,0.24,0.11
Finnic,34.17,47.69,4.43,2.21,0.65,0.42,0.53,0.96,6.48,0.90,0.81,0.50,0.26
Baltic,26.74,58.36,6.41,2.73,0.78,1.1,0.77,0.09,1 .43,0.73,0.32,0.33,0.22
SSA,0.07,0.06,0.08,0.07,0.10,0.13,0.08,0.07,0.22,0.07,0.33,13.01,85.70

Target: Defcon2
Distance: 12.4712% / 12.47119255
79.2 Gaulish
18.7 Roman
2.1 SSA

Model above gives me this.

Target: Grace
Distance: 231.3195% / 2.31319512
53.2 Germanic
46.0 Insular_Celtic
0.8 Balkanic

Target: Ezio
Distance: 788.7436% / 7.88743612
77.6 Gaulish
21.0 Roman
1.4 SSA

Your high distances indicate that you have not run it well, you have to use K13 coordinates.