Southeast England was 80% replaced by Anglo-Saxons in the Early Middle Ages

[Africanwidow]

No. The English, Welsh and Scottish are all native to Britain. Possibly only the Welsh are mostly descended from Celtic Britons, Brittonic ancestry in England ranges from 11 to 57%.

The Welsh and Scottish are still 30% German invader

No one in Britain is 'pure' Celtic or Germanic. Just varying degrees of admixture from different NW European groups. But you'll get individuals that are 80% CNE or WBI they are just not the norm in England.

[J. Ketch]

The Welsh and Scottish are still 30% German invader

No one in Britain is 'pure' Celtic or Germanic. Just varying degrees of admixture from different NW European groups. But you'll get individuals that are 80% CNE or WBI they are just not the norm in England.

Yep, you can certainly say the English were German invaders in the EMA and the Welsh the natives (though the Scots were Irish invaders into Northern Britain at that time), but too much water has flown under the bridge since then with too much cultural and genetic mixing. It's like saying the Frisians aren't native to Friesland. The English are the descendants of the Iceni, Catuvellauni, Trinovantes, Brigantes etc, and I'm proud to have that as part of my English ancestry as well as the Anglo-Saxon.

Do you think there are 80% CNE types still in Britain? I'm not sure after 1000+ years of evening out in the genepool, I assumed that in any given region people would only be around 10% more or less than the average.

[Africanwidow]

Yep, you can certainly say the English were German invaders in the EMA and the Welsh the natives (though the Scots were Irish invaders into Northern Britain at that time), but too much water has flown under the bridge since then with too much cultural and genetic mixing. It's like saying the Frisians aren't native to Friesland. The English are the descendants of the Iceni, Catuvellauni, Trinovantes, Brigantes etc, and I'm proud to have that as part of my English ancestry as well as the Anglo-Saxon.

Do you think there are 80% CNE types still in Britain? I'm not sure after 1000+ years of evening out in the genepool, I assumed that in any given region people would only be around 10% more or less than the average.

Well, the Frisians aren't native to Friesland but that is beyond the point. Too much time has past for it to be any relevant today.

Modelling with CvG using the prelim samples there is a range from 0-80% in CNE. I'm aware it's not a full-proof method for individuals like in your case for example... but I nailed the averages from the paper for the British Isles.



English and British samples including myself on the PCA:

[Firenna]

Great to finally have the paper as a reference, although basically just confirming what we'd seen in the previews. The question of Norse/Danish influence vs Anglo-Saxon still remains vague, and I still can't get my head around the France IA influence, when and where exactly most of it came to England. From how evenly it's spread over the bulk of England, parallel with Anglo-Saxon ancestry, you would think it came early-ish, mostly alongside Anglo-Saxons as part of the Frankish influence the paper mentions, but then it's not seen in the early medieval sites outside Southern England below the Thames. However that is possibly just a sampling issue, since Frankish objects are found in good numbers in the Midlands, East Anglia, and East Yorkshire. I personally don't believe the majority of France IA ancestry in English came after 1066 with Normans, although no doubt a significant percentage of it did. 40+% French in East Anglia coming with Normans is just not credible IMO, there is no historical or other evidence that it was a hotspot of Norman/French migration in the later Middle Ages, let alone having such a drastic population replacement.

It can be explained by continuous low intensity migration from Northern France to Southern Britain given the close geographic proximity and higher population density in the mainland.

[Davystayn]

Interesting that Germany has such high France IA, at 48%, much higher than Eng at 30%. Would be interesting to see Denmark stats, seeing as France IA is absent in Norway.

[Africanwidow]

Interesting that Germany has such high France IA, at 48%, much higher than Eng at 30%. Would be interesting to see Denmark stats, seeing as France IA is absent in Norway.

Unfortunately, no Danish samples.

[celticdragongod]

Yep, you can certainly say the English were German invaders in the EMA and the Welsh the natives (though the Scots were Irish invaders into Northern Britain at that time), but too much water has flown under the bridge since then with too much cultural and genetic mixing. It's like saying the Frisians aren't native to Friesland. The English are the descendants of the Iceni, Catuvellauni, Trinovantes, Brigantes etc, and I'm proud to have that as part of my English ancestry as well as the Anglo-Saxon.

Do you think there are 80% CNE types still in Britain? I'm not sure after 1000+ years of evening out in the genepool, I assumed that in any given region people would only be around 10% more or less than the average.

Are you saying that the Irish invaders exterminated the people who had lived in Scotland before they arrived? If yes, do you have any evidence to back up this belief?

[J. Ketch]

Are you saying that the Irish invaders exterminated the people who had lived in Scotland before they arrived? If yes, do you have any evidence to back up this belief?

Exterminated? I'm not a Hollywood director, replacing history with atrocity propaganda.

Gaels from Ulster invaded and settled in Northern Britain in the Early Middle Ages, supplanting the native Britons/Picts and their language, and giving rise to the Kingdom of Scotland - just as the Anglo-Saxons were doing in Southern Britain, giving rise to the Kingdom of England.

[coolfrenchguy]

Exterminated? I'm not a Hollywood director, replacing history with atrocity propaganda.

Gaels from Ulster invaded and settled in Northern Britain in the Early Middle Ages, supplanting the native Britons/Picts and their language, and giving rise to the Kingdom of Scotland - just as the Anglo-Saxons were doing in Southern Britain, giving rise to the Kingdom of England.

in french we says angleterre for england,angle for the angles and "terre" for land,something called anglia in the english language,
doesn't the angles who are the true exterminators with the saxons of the first inhabitants of this island
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angles


British man of the Saxon period



British man from the iron age


Woman of Roman-British descent

[coolfrenchguy]

Interesting that Germany has such high France IA, at 48%, much higher than Eng at 30%. Would be interesting to see Denmark stats, seeing as France IA is absent in Norway.

it's probably related toward(s) the empire of carolus magnus and the frankish kingdom at this period of time,you should never minimised the role of the carolus magnus empire,it's almost the 3/4 of the modern western europe