Hungarians are NOT Finno-Ugrics. They just adopted a Ugric/Uralic language.

[Blondie]

....

Russians also had many western influence, just visit Petrograd, looks like a french city. Your partly right, the russian connection is mostly political but not completely. I think the czechs are quintessential central europeans, if you compare them with hungarians you will see big differences.

Hungarians are very lucky to have a leader who likes the majority of his own people.

This is not true, Orban has 2-3 million voter, its not the majority of hungarians. Tons of Orban voter does not really like him, but there is no better option. In fact, the ex leftist government was much worse and majority of hungarians hate them as well. They dont want them back, thats why they are voting for Orban.

[oszkar07]

Blondie;7964886]Russians also had many western influence, just visit Petrograd, looks like a french city. Your partly right, the russian connection is mostly political but not completely. I think the czechs are quintessential central europeans, if you compare them with hungarians you will see big differences.

Yes Russia is a BIG place with lots of influences ... just compare St Petersburg to Vladivostok.

The very first time I visited Budapest was in the 1990's.
For me the city just had a certain feel or energy about it that I cant explain yes it was European but it had some exotic feeling that was different to many of the other west and central European cities Ive been to.

I think in a certain way Hungarians can be a little open to both Western and Eastern influences and it is true Carpathian Basin is border of where East meets West.
Ultimately I have always seen Hungarians as a kind of unique anomaly in Europe to a degree they are unique to themselves to this
language and identity of being a Hungarian. But secondly they are pretty much East Central Europeans/Central Europeans.

[Anglo-Celtic]

I would not be voting for Slow Joe if I lived in the US.

Yeh if I was a US citizen i would be very pissed off that such huge proportion of Tax payers money has been spent on this proxy forever war BS and also on funding the genocide perpetrating state in the M/E.

And i dont know if it is BS propaganda or not but i recently saw an article saying Trump has pivoted and is now saying he would continue to fund Ukraine against Russia ?
(maybe he had to say that to get some sort of deep state backing not sure ?)

Kennedy is still saying if elected he would stop funding Ukraine and wants US to make better relations with Russia - which I think is sensible.

I heard that the regime might try to trap Trump with a ten-year trillion-dollar pledge to Ukraine that he would be obligated to honor during his *third* term. Evidently, these traitors want to fight the war until the last American cent and the last Ukrainian life, especially since they have no knowledge of the words, "peace" and "treaty". As for Bad Vlad, Orange Man Bad wants a good relationship with him for the sake of the whole world. It looks like the Biden regime might start World War III just to prevent that from taking place when Trump wins.

[Anglo-Celtic]

This is not true, Orban has 2-3 million voter, its not the majority of hungarians. Tons of Orban voter does not really like him, but there is no better option. In fact, the ex leftist government was much worse and majority of hungarians hate them as well. They dont want them back, thats why they are voting for Orban.

You and Oszkar can inform me about the Hungarian political scene. I just know that I would take Orban over Biden a million times over, and I like Viktor more because the "right people" hate him so much.

[Blondie]

Yes Russia is a BIG place with lots of influences ... just compare St Petersburg to Vladivostok.

The very first time I visited Budapest was in the 1990's.
For me the city just had a certain feel or energy about it that I cant explain yes it was European but it had some exotic feeling that was different to many of the other west and central European cities Ive been to.

I think in a certain way Hungarians can be a little open to both Western and Eastern influences and it is true Carpathian Basin is border of where East meets West.
Ultimately I have always seen Hungarians as a kind of unique anomaly in Europe to a degree they are unique to themselves to this
language and identity of being a Hungarian. But secondly they are pretty much East Central Europeans/Central Europeans.

There is a serious kultur fight inside Hungary, who are they? St. Stephen or Koppány? Rome or Byzantium? Urbánus or Plebejus? Labanc or kuruc? Nyugati vagy szittya? European folk or Attila's folk? These all questions just mean one thing: West or East? This is still a current issue in hungarian identity and this question is not decided. Basically the hungarian left choose the West, and the hungarian right wingers romanticize the East.

[oszkar07]

There is a serious kultur fight inside Hungary, who are they? St. Stephen or Koppány? Rome or Byzantium? Urbánus or Plebejus? Labanc or kuruc? Nyugati vagy szittya? European folk or Attila's folk? These all questions just mean one thing: West or East? This is still a current issue in hungarian identity and this question is not decided. Basically the hungarian left choose the West, and the hungarian right wingers romanticize the East.

Tudom !

The curse of Turan.

It is nothing new , that type of philosophical argument has been going on before you were born.

But in reality Hungary is more western than Eastern, that is for sure.

But in the distant past Hungarians in certain point of time was more Eastern thats for sure too.

[Blondie]

But in reality Hungary is more western than Eastern, that is for sure.

How? Present Hungary is definitely closer to east european countries than to Austria. This is just fact.

Before the world wars, Hungary was a western country, but during the 20. century there were huge social changes. Hungary as part of Habsburg Empire was a great power, and it had a big cultural influence in the Carpathian Basin, this local culture was western, partly hungarian and partly german. Hungarians saw themselves as culturally superior to slavs or romanians. Count Apponyi is also talked about it in the Trianon Palace: Hungary is the eastern bastion of West and that the hungarian government wanted to "civilize" the rural slovaks and romanians, and this civilization meant the western culture. This is how the hungarian society looked like inside the Habsburg Empire and this is how hungarians saw others in the Carpathian Basin at this time.

When Trianon happened, this event crushed and changed the hungarian identity completely. This "we are the eastern bastion of West" illusion disappeared very quickly. The hungarian elite considered completely unimaginable that westernes in Paris will prefer such eastern folks like romanians or serbs over western hungarians. In Trianon Palace, the slovak and romanian politicians have talked about ethnic numbers in Transylvania or Slovakia that they are the majority not the hungarians etc, these were their main arguments. The hungarian delegation said very different things like this western based superior hungarian culture over others and hey french we are westernes just like you.
But Trianon happened and it was a very huge disappointment in the West inside the hungarian society, The pro-western feelings have been replaced by this huge disappointment, the anger and hatred towards westernes, the feeling that they betryed Hungary. There was fanatic hate especially towards France. This betrayal from West is also important part of present hungarian mentality in 2024. "Why should be we freindly with westernes if they betryed us in Trianon?" If your are talking with average hungarian right wingers this thing will be their main agrument.

So in 1920, hungarians have started to see themselves very differently and the "West" became a hate word. These east oriented turanist ideas were very popular. After the ww2, Hungary became part of eastern block, the communism also had on huge cultural influence on hungarians. Thats an illusion that present hungarians and austrians are close to each other, of course they arent. Look around in the region: croats, romanians, poles, czechs choosed western oriented governments, and hungarians are voting for the eastern oriented Orban again and again. I dont think that present Hungary is so western (of course except Budapest), but i definitely think that hungarians are more eastern than west slavs, croats or even present romanians. West is not popular outside of Budapest, but a very very suspicious thing. This is the reality.

[oszkar07]

How? Present Hungary is definitely closer to east european countries than to Austria. This is just fact.

Before the world wars, Hungary was a western country, but during the 20. century there were huge social changes. Hungary as part of Habsburg Empire was a great power, and it had a big cultural influence in the Carpathian Basin, this local culture was western, partly hungarian and partly german. Hungarians saw themselves as culturally superior to slavs or romanians. Count Apponyi is also talked about it in the Trianon Palace: Hungary is the eastern bastion of West and that the hungarian government wanted to "civilize" the rural slovaks and romanians, and this civilization meant the western culture. This is how the hungarian society looked like inside the Habsburg Empire and this is how hungarians saw others in the Carpathian Basin at this time.

When Trianon happened, this event crushed and changed the hungarian identity completely. This "we are the eastern bastion of West" illusion disappeared very quickly. The hungarian elite considered completely unimaginable that westernes in Paris will prefer such eastern folks like romanians or serbs over western hungarians. In Trianon Palace, the slovak and romanian politicians have talked about ethnic numbers in Transylvania or Slovakia that they are the majority not the hungarians etc, these were their main arguments. The hungarian delegation said very different things like this western based superior hungarian culture over others and hey french we are westernes just like you.
But Trianon happened and it was a very huge disappointment in the West inside the hungarian society, The pro-western feelings have been replaced by this huge disappointment, the anger and hatred towards westernes, the feeling that they betrayed Hungary. There was fanatic hate especially towards France. This betrayal from West is also important part of present hungarian mentality in 2024. "Why should be we freindly with westernes if they betryed us in Trianon?" If your are talking with average hungarian right wingers this thing will be their main agrument.

So in 1920, hungarians have started to see themselves very differently and the "West" became a hate word. These east oriented turanist ideas were very popular. After the ww2, Hungary became part of eastern block, the communism also had on huge cultural influence on hungarians. Thats an illusion that present hungarians and austrians are close to each other, of course they arent. Look around in the region: croats, romanians, poles, czechs choosed western oriented governments, and hungarians are voting for the eastern oriented Orban again and again. I dont think that present Hungary is so western (of course except Budapest), but i definitely think that hungarians are more eastern than west slavs, croats or even present romanians. West is not popular outside of Budapest, but a very very suspicious thing. This is the reality.

Yes but what you have talked about is ideology.
The dissapointment from Trianon, the feeling of betrayal of the West.
But as you said Hungary had already become a very Central European leaning country.
Budapest and even in Erdely had very good European educational institutions.


The Turanism resurgence you mentioned was an ideology, in a way looking back to the Huns, the early Magyars for identity.
I spoke about in a sense the uniqueness of the Hungarians by language and self identity.
But if we go beyond that ideology what you have is a people living a very European cultured life style.

I have come across mostly on the internet many Turanist Hungarians who sprouted the anti European anti western sentiment and they proclaimed themselves as Turks, they procalimed Hungarians as Turks.
I saw some other Hungarians say even crazier things.
In reality it did not make any sense to me, although I was not born in Hungary I did grow up with a Hungarian Father and Uncle and Grandparents.
Plus quite a lot of Hungarian social community -friends and asscociates connected to my Grandparents.
It was strange for me to look at my Hungarian Family and then see some Turnaist guy on the internet trying to promote to everyone who will listen to him
saying Hungarians are Turks they are not European bla bla bla - this just did not make sense at all because I have been to suburbs in my city
where there is some significant Turkish population. I knew very well that culture and food and mentality and religion etc was mostly
different to the culture , food and mentality of Hungarians, so to the ideological Turanist - my response was wtf are you talking about.

But yes my Grandfather always told me "us Hungarians are from the Huns".
In a sesne Hungarians had this feeling about their past, but beside that feeling they were mostly living as European culture already for hundreds of years.
There were time when some of Hungarys neighbours were hostile to us and would say things like Hungarians are Mongols they dont belong in Europe. The funny thing was compared to several of those neighbours Hungary was already further up the European cultural ladder by development and mentality than they were.

You compared the difference between Hungary and Austria but you also mentioned the Soviet era of Hungary's history.
Look at 1956 , was Hungary trying to go East or West ?.
Look at the end of the 1980's beginning of the 90's, was Hungary trying to go East or West ?

Now the Neo liberalism is pushing a kind of Globalism and Americanism, Hungary again is trying to define itself as its own nation.
Now we dont just talk about West or East we can talk about Globo homo or Nation state.
Hungary is trying to contain it self as a non Globo homo sovereign nation state.

[Blondie]

.....

Okay what is Central Europe? CE meant the Habsburg Empire in the past, but nowadays its a relative term. Like it or not after 1945, Central Europe just disappeared, because Europe had only two side in the Cold War: East & West. Who are central european nowadays? Tons of poles or hungarians will say "yeah im central european and Germany & Austria are western" and tons of other polish and hungarian will say im east european. And if you ask germans/austrians about it, tons of them will says im the real Central Europe and Hungary + Poland are east european, other germans will say im western european. So the definition of present Central Europe is just depends on your personal point of view.

Another very important thing is this old magyars vs turanism question. The hun identity of hungarians exist since hungarians exist, its not a modern thing. You can find the hun identity among hungarians even in the nomad age before the Carpathian Basin, its well documented, for example in the Hunor & Magor origin myth. Everyone accept it, leftist or right winger doesnt matter, this is part of hungarian identity and self-determination, BUT its not turanism. Turanism is a modern extremist version of the old magyar heritage. Turanists think hungarians are turkic, and these folks are brothers etc, but majority of hungarians doesnt share this opinion although everyone accept the huns. So the hun identity and turanism are not same things, many people thinks these are same, but its not.

Present hungarians are europeans of course, but the hungarian self image is very unique and its not only european. Huns were not europeans, neither the nomad magyars, and the hungarian identity is rooted here. If a romanian is going to Italy then the italian language sounds similar. If a slovak is going to Russia, they have similar experience, just like if an austrian visits Netherlands. Even if finns are going to some finnic part of Russia or Estonia they will say hey these guys speak a similar language. Only hungarians dont have such experience in abroad, and it makes the hungarian identity more stronger. This isolation is the reason that hungarians do care about the past much more and they dont give a fuck about the present in general. This is a great weakness of hungarian society in my opinion. Everyone loves the history, family trees, what is the history of your family, who are your relaives, even the distant relatives are very important, as i know only the hungarians celebrate the names day (névnap) others are not really. Hungarian is one of the oldest ethnicity in Europe, the magyar language was separated from other ugric languages 3000 years ago, so hungarians are a 3000 years old folk when poles, french, russians, danes and others did not exist. So hungarians try to find their relatives in the past, because nowadays hungarians are lonely without relatives.

So do hungarians consider themselves europeans? Yes definitely, but not completely. The hungarian world view is a 3000 years old time zone, including european and asian parts.

[oszkar07]

Russians defeated the hungarian revolution in 1849 and 1956. Russia was the main enemy of Hungary during the world wars, especially during the ww1. But present hungarians dont really care about it.

when i was 10 i stabbed a Russian kid in the balls.