View Full Version : Moldovan/Romanian GEDmatch Resuts
He looks Gypsy more or less yes, but there are ethnic Serbs who look less white than Mortimer.
This guy is minister in Serbian government and extreme nationalist.
[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Aleksandar_Vulin-mc.rs.jpg
Is that super dark? To me not so much. Only his eyes appear kinda Jewish to me.
CommonSense
04-08-2020, 08:14 PM
Is that super dark? To me not so much. Only his eyes appear kinda Jewish to me.
He doesn't look Gypsy. Even Vukodav who lives in North Montenegro where Serbs don't live besides Gypsies said he doesn't see any resemblence between him and Mortimer or any other mixed person.
Dušan
04-08-2020, 08:18 PM
I doubt you are with updated averages. But we know, you won't run them out of fear xD :lol:
That new Croatian what you made?
Ok...
https://i.imgur.com/ujEfAf5.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/BZ7IQeK.jpg
You are very stupid.
Deal with it.
Ion Basescul
04-08-2020, 08:18 PM
did you read that Eupedia post about 23andme's algorithm?
I have, but Kurd has an infamy for forging every kind of possible data just to be able to justify his theories.
Just ask Davidski's (the Eurogenes guy) opinion on him and his works.
If I were to see an average of even 40% Baltic with academic Serb samples, then I wouldn't have even started this debate in the first place.
I can fully accept that Dusan is a live Serb that I know with 33%. But how can I know that the rest of the Serbs that are used for the 30% average come in proportionate numbers from all over the country, as opposed to being solely from the North, or solely from the South, etc.?
Did you guys even ask yourselves this?
You can't just gather 50 samples from one place, assume that every Serb in Serbia is similar to people from that place and call it a day.
I don't want to brag, but ideally you should do something like I did. Split your country in 3 halves by latitude (North, Centre, South) and make 3 averages.
Then calculate the average out of these 3 coordinates or weigh them at least appropriately, if for example more Serbs live in the North than South.
^^^^
Yes, I am, I admit xD
@IB, stick to Moldovan results please. There is already a lot of stuff said about Serbs and Croats and not nearly as much about Moldovans.
Daos777
04-08-2020, 08:37 PM
It's not inflated, it's representative for Croats of Zagreb who were sampled. K13 updated has Czech and Slovak reference, even Czech_Moravian was made by Andre so you won't get Croatian, don't worry :)
Where can I find updated K13?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k13-vahaduo.htm
Add these averages to source as well
Czech_Moravian,32.84,37.68,11.13,3.61,10.17,0,0.90 ,0,0.35,0.65,1.01,1.66,0
Slovak_West,30.27,38.62,13.26,3.73,7.47,1.71,1.99, 0,1.48,0.79,0.62,0.07,0
Russian_West_Siberia,25.02,46.68,8.63,6.69,2.01,1. 14,1.54,1.09,5.02,1.07,1.01,0,0.1
Vlach_Timok,25.17,26.7,18.87,6.81,17.69,1.75,0.2,0 .54,0.21,0.56,1.71,0,0.33
Romania_Moldavia_average,23.92,27.62,16.56,9.91,16 .68,1.51,0.58,0.43,1.36,0.63,0.46,0.16,0.16
Romania_Moldavia_North,23.82,28.53,15.49,10.61,16. 38,1.41,0.68,0.40,1.25,0.60,0.40,0.22,0.21
Romania_Moldavia_South,24.02,26.76,17.58,9.25,16.9 7,1.60,0.48,0.46,1.47,0.65,0.52,0.10,0.12
Moldova_average,22.51,27.80,16.89,10.65,16.33,2.30 ,0.44,0.62,1.19,0.54,0.42,0.10,0.20
Moldova_North,25.89,33.33,14.92,8.89,11.43,1.48,0. 65,0.56,1.47,0.35,0.61,0.17,0.26
Moldova_Centre,21.89,29.51,16.06,10.47,16.10,1.90, 0.53,0.83,1.14,0.81,0.48,0.08,0.20
Moldova_South,21.51,24.20,18.33,11.54,18.60,2.94,0 .29,0.49,1.11,0.42,0.29,0.10,0.18
Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes,24.50,36.97,13.80,8.11,11 .00,1.03,1.07,0.57,1.66,0.66,0.26,0.12,0.25
Serbian_Belgrade_academic,24.42,28.12,17.06,9.06,1 7.09,1.48,0.45,0.36,0.73,0.56,0.54,0.1,0.04
Croatian_new,27.49,33.14,15.16,7.79,14.31,1.74,0.9 7,0.30,0.51,0.67,0.33,0.09,0.13
South_Croat_average,25.97,31.99,16.29,7.83,13.15,1 .91,0.47,0.26,0.66,0.58,0.46,0.12,0.19
than post your data into target, and than click to distance.
Ion Basescul
04-08-2020, 08:43 PM
@IB, stick to Moldovan results please. There is already a lot of stuff said about Serbs and Croats and not nearly as much about Moldovans.
Yeah, but I didn't participate in those discussions.
Nobody has forgot about this thread. I'm just a bit lazy to research today and as a result have a lot of time to chat :lol:
Distance to: Moldova_average
1.70108789 Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
1.72745478 Romanian_Average
1.87699227 Romania_Moldavia_average
2.09148273 Moldova_Centre
2.26567871 Romania_Moldavia_North
2.61371383 Romania_Moldavia_South
2.80663500 Serbian_Belgrade_academic
3.19970311 Bulgarian_Sofia
3.69460417 Romanian_Transylvania
3.75818976 Montenegrin
4.00058746 Bulgarian_Pleven
4.03681805 Bosniak_Sandzak
4.15356473 Serb_Croatia
4.18015275 Macedonian
4.21262201 Serbian_new
4.21480723 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
4.25997653 Romanian_Oltenia
4.73979957 Moldova_South
4.74774683 Bulgarian_Stara-Zagora
5.35325135 Macedonian_Northwest
5.52326896 Bulgarian_Gabrovo
5.64087759 Vlach_Timok
5.69025483 Bulgarian
5.69641993 Turk_N-Macedonia
5.86026450 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
Distance to: Moldova_North
2.13447886 Moldavian
2.96767586 South_Croat_average
3.12213068 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
3.14682380 South_Croat_Slavic_Cluster
3.15672100 Serbian_Bosnia
3.37722242 Croat_Bosnia
3.39799941 Croat_Split
3.46428867 Bosnian
3.61809342 Bosniak_Tuzla
3.67714563 Croatian_new
4.02769165 Croat_Zagreb
4.16833300 Romanian_Botosani
4.22678365 Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes
4.75384055 Szekely
4.81691058 Slovenian
4.87941595 HungarianTA
5.12046873 Csango_Gymes
5.36417748 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
5.44678135 Serbian_new
5.55288213 Serb_Croatia
6.00307421 Hungarian_New
6.97602322 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
7.43653817 Romania_Moldavia_North
7.53724751 Moldova_Centre
7.92801971 Slovak
Distance to: Moldova_Centre
2.09148273 Moldova_average
2.37444730 Romania_Moldavia_North
2.87311677 Romanian_Average
2.99946662 Romania_Moldavia_average
3.05646855 Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
3.60070826 Serbian_Belgrade_academic
3.92341688 Bulgarian_Sofia
3.92895641 Serbian_new
4.00918944 Serb_Croatia
4.02873429 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
4.12642703 Romania_Moldavia_South
4.69429441 Bulgarian_Pleven
4.82419416 Bosnian
4.95975806 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
5.22387787 Romanian_Botosani
5.36156694 Romanian_Transylvania
5.58303466 Montenegrin
5.88396658 Macedonian
5.94286126 Bosniak_Sandzak
5.97768350 Turk_N-Macedonia
6.11987745 Romanian_Oltenia
6.25586125 South_Croat_average
6.29370618 Serbian_Bosnia
6.42719223 Bulgarian_Stara-Zagora
6.50638148 Moldova_South
Distance to: Moldova_South
1.45972600 Bulgarian_Stara-Zagora
1.74045971 Bulgarian_Gabrovo
2.05282732 Bulgarian
2.38226783 Macedonian_Northwest
2.74189036 Macedonian
2.82906345 Bulgarian_North-Rhodope
3.19228758 Pomak_Nevrokopi
3.32804748 Romanian_Oltenia
4.04487330 Bulgarian_Central
4.10392495 Bosniak_Sandzak
4.24418426 Macedonian_Central
4.40289464 North_Macedonian
4.40919494 Bulgarian_Sofia
4.59486670 Macedonian_North
4.63815130 Montenegrin
4.73979957 Moldova_average
4.74313188 Romanian_Muntenia
4.77941419 Romanian_Transylvania
4.83619685 Romania_Moldavia_South
4.89860184 Bulgarian_Serres
5.13846281 Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
5.20226874 Bulgarian_Eastern-Rhodopes
5.24113537 Vlach_North-Macedonia-Highlander
5.32456571 Bulgarian_Pazardzhik
5.38136600 Macedonian_East
Distance to: Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes
3.27042811 Bosniak_Tuzla
3.62706493 South_Croat_Slavic_Cluster
3.63384094 Croat_Zagreb
4.08439714 Moldavian
4.22678365 Moldova_North
5.26832991 Romanian_Botosani
6.20055643 Croatian_new
6.33583459 South_Croat_average
6.34325437 Bosnian
6.46584005 Serbian_Bosnia
6.50229190 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
6.51058609 Croat_Bosnia
6.70842959 Slovenian
6.97881795 Croat_Split
7.38051777 Slovak
7.91394971 HungarianTA
8.28140689 Csango_Gymes
8.35642866 Slovak_West
8.36409589 Ukrainian_Lviv
8.44511101 Szekely
8.64366820 Hungarian_New
8.71167025 Serbian_new
8.75024000 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
8.81249113 Serb_Croatia
9.21028773 Kaykavian_Croatian
Ion Basescul
04-08-2020, 08:50 PM
Distance to: Moldova_average
1.70108789 Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
1.72745478 Romanian_Average
1.87699227 Romania_Moldavia_average
2.09148273 Moldova_Centre
2.26567871 Romania_Moldavia_North
2.61371383 Romania_Moldavia_South
2.80663500 Serbian_Belgrade_academic
3.19970311 Bulgarian_Sofia
3.69460417 Romanian_Transylvania
3.75818976 Montenegrin
4.00058746 Bulgarian_Pleven
4.03681805 Bosniak_Sandzak
4.15356473 Serb_Croatia
4.18015275 Macedonian
4.21262201 Serbian_new
4.21480723 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
4.25997653 Romanian_Oltenia
4.73979957 Moldova_South
4.74774683 Bulgarian_Stara-Zagora
5.35325135 Macedonian_Northwest
5.52326896 Bulgarian_Gabrovo
5.64087759 Vlach_Timok
5.69025483 Bulgarian
5.69641993 Turk_N-Macedonia
5.86026450 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
Distance to: Moldova_North
2.13447886 Moldavian
2.96767586 South_Croat_average
3.12213068 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
3.14682380 South_Croat_Slavic_Cluster
3.15672100 Serbian_Bosnia
3.37722242 Croat_Bosnia
3.39799941 Croat_Split
3.46428867 Bosnian
3.61809342 Bosniak_Tuzla
3.67714563 Croatian_new
4.02769165 Croat_Zagreb
4.16833300 Romanian_Botosani
4.22678365 Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes
4.75384055 Szekely
4.81691058 Slovenian
4.87941595 HungarianTA
5.12046873 Csango_Gymes
5.36417748 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
5.44678135 Serbian_new
5.55288213 Serb_Croatia
6.00307421 Hungarian_New
6.97602322 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
7.43653817 Romania_Moldavia_North
7.53724751 Moldova_Centre
7.92801971 Slovak
Distance to: Moldova_Centre
2.09148273 Moldova_average
2.37444730 Romania_Moldavia_North
2.87311677 Romanian_Average
2.99946662 Romania_Moldavia_average
3.05646855 Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
3.60070826 Serbian_Belgrade_academic
3.92341688 Bulgarian_Sofia
3.92895641 Serbian_new
4.00918944 Serb_Croatia
4.02873429 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
4.12642703 Romania_Moldavia_South
4.69429441 Bulgarian_Pleven
4.82419416 Bosnian
4.95975806 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
5.22387787 Romanian_Botosani
5.36156694 Romanian_Transylvania
5.58303466 Montenegrin
5.88396658 Macedonian
5.94286126 Bosniak_Sandzak
5.97768350 Turk_N-Macedonia
6.11987745 Romanian_Oltenia
6.25586125 South_Croat_average
6.29370618 Serbian_Bosnia
6.42719223 Bulgarian_Stara-Zagora
6.50638148 Moldova_South
Distance to: Moldova_South
1.45972600 Bulgarian_Stara-Zagora
1.74045971 Bulgarian_Gabrovo
2.05282732 Bulgarian
2.38226783 Macedonian_Northwest
2.74189036 Macedonian
2.82906345 Bulgarian_North-Rhodope
3.19228758 Pomak_Nevrokopi
3.32804748 Romanian_Oltenia
4.04487330 Bulgarian_Central
4.10392495 Bosniak_Sandzak
4.24418426 Macedonian_Central
4.40289464 North_Macedonian
4.40919494 Bulgarian_Sofia
4.59486670 Macedonian_North
4.63815130 Montenegrin
4.73979957 Moldova_average
4.74313188 Romanian_Muntenia
4.77941419 Romanian_Transylvania
4.83619685 Romania_Moldavia_South
4.89860184 Bulgarian_Serres
5.13846281 Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
5.20226874 Bulgarian_Eastern-Rhodopes
5.24113537 Vlach_North-Macedonia-Highlander
5.32456571 Bulgarian_Pazardzhik
5.38136600 Macedonian_East
Distance to: Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes
3.27042811 Bosniak_Tuzla
3.62706493 South_Croat_Slavic_Cluster
3.63384094 Croat_Zagreb
4.08439714 Moldavian
4.22678365 Moldova_North
5.26832991 Romanian_Botosani
6.20055643 Croatian_new
6.33583459 South_Croat_average
6.34325437 Bosnian
6.46584005 Serbian_Bosnia
6.50229190 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
6.51058609 Croat_Bosnia
6.70842959 Slovenian
6.97881795 Croat_Split
7.38051777 Slovak
7.91394971 HungarianTA
8.28140689 Csango_Gymes
8.35642866 Slovak_West
8.36409589 Ukrainian_Lviv
8.44511101 Szekely
8.64366820 Hungarian_New
8.71167025 Serbian_new
8.75024000 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
8.81249113 Serb_Croatia
9.21028773 Kaykavian_Croatian
Basically all the South Slavic flavour in one country
Distance to: Romania_Moldavia_average
0.84545846 Romanian_Average
1.26917296 Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
1.44551029 Serbian_Belgrade_academic
1.53297097 Romania_Moldavia_South
1.61449683 Romania_Moldavia_North
1.87699227 Moldova_average
2.69766566 Bulgarian_Pleven
2.97238317 Montenegrin
2.99946662 Moldova_Centre
3.06903894 Romanian_Transylvania
3.38585269 Serbian_new
3.43206935 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
3.68019021 Serb_Croatia
3.84776559 Romanian_Oltenia
3.87940717 Bosniak_Sandzak
4.01307754 Macedonian
4.16117772 Bulgarian_Sofia
4.64043101 Vlach_Timok
5.11796835 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
5.31697282 Macedonian_Northwest
5.31947366 Bulgarian_Stara-Zagora
5.40858577 Moldova_South
5.46168472 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
5.49618255 Bosnian
6.02782714 Bulgarian
Distance to: Romania_Moldavia_North
1.61449683 Romania_Moldavia_average
1.70522726 Romanian_Average
1.95698748 Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
2.26567871 Moldova_average
2.37444730 Moldova_Centre
2.50876464 Serbian_Belgrade_academic
3.14741163 Romania_Moldavia_South
3.24124071 Serbian_new
3.26684863 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
3.74507677 Bulgarian_Pleven
3.81562577 Serb_Croatia
4.12778391 Romanian_Transylvania
4.16587381 Montenegrin
4.61018438 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
4.66883240 Bosnian
4.81866164 Romanian_Oltenia
4.94677673 Bulgarian_Sofia
5.13162658 Macedonian
5.23130959 Bosniak_Sandzak
5.35927234 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
5.68917393 Szekely
5.88880187 Serbian_Bosnia
5.99829976 Vlach_Timok
6.00596370 South_Croat_average
6.03619914 Croat_Split
Distance to: Romania_Moldavia_South
1.53297097 Romania_Moldavia_average
1.70830325 Serbian_Belgrade_academic
1.85720220 Romanian_Average
2.07894204 Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
2.36032480 Montenegrin
2.38838858 Bulgarian_Pleven
2.61371383 Moldova_average
2.64503308 Romanian_Transylvania
2.86276091 Bosniak_Sandzak
3.14741163 Romania_Moldavia_North
3.34891111 Macedonian
3.41252106 Romanian_Oltenia
3.55463078 Vlach_Timok
3.92275413 Bulgarian_Sofia
4.12642703 Moldova_Centre
4.14656466 Serbian_new
4.17161839 Serb_Croatia
4.20279669 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
4.30502033 Macedonian_Northwest
4.83619685 Moldova_South
4.83873951 Bulgarian_Stara-Zagora
5.15250425 Romanian_Muntenia
5.34941118 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
5.45730703 Bulgarian_Central
5.54368109 Bulgarian_Gabrovo
Pribislav
04-08-2020, 08:52 PM
I don't, how is he any different from some full Serbs? Serbia has a lot of phenotypes, just like any other country.
I don't know if Leto's ever been to Serbia, but I have, so I stand by my opinion.
There's no reason for me to have anything against Serbs. You guys are pretty much terra incognita for someone in my region.
Romanians look quite different than Serbs on average. I noticed that, and this is also opinion of some other people of various ethnicities.
Seya visited Belgrade in this January, and she said Serbs are significant lighter pigmented than Romanians, taller, more western looking and have longer faces than Romanians. This is her original post https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?315885-Are-Serbs-and-Croats-the-same-people&p=6568439&viewfull=1#post6568439
Vlach_Timok is probably very good proxy for eastern Serbs.
Distance to: Vlach_Timok
3.55463078 Romania_Moldavia_South
3.63024793 Serbian_Belgrade_academic
3.65253337 Bulgarian_Pleven
4.07992647 Bosniak_Sandzak
4.30111335 Montenegrin
4.64043101 Romania_Moldavia_average
4.90905286 Romanian_Transylvania
4.96501531 Macedonian
5.00285918 Romanian_Average
5.35421329 Serb_Croatia
5.37326436 Serbian_new
5.39497915 Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
5.50182697 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
5.55172045 Bulgarian_Sofia
5.64087759 Moldova_average
5.65254810 Romanian_Oltenia
5.85214491 Macedonian_Northwest
5.88058671 Romanian_Muntenia
5.99829976 Romania_Moldavia_North
6.12396930 Bulgarian_Central
6.17001621 Pomak_Plovdiv
6.54398197 Bulgarian_Serres
6.71962797 Moldova_Centre
6.72614303 Bulgarian_Dupnitsa
6.73775927 Bulgarian_Stara-Zagora
Ion Basescul
04-08-2020, 08:55 PM
Romanians look quite different than Serbs on average. I noticed that, and this is also opinion of some other people of various ethnicity.
Seya visited Belgrade in this January, and she said Serbs are singificant lighter pigmented than Romanians, taller, more western looking and have longer faces than Romanians. This is her original post https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?315885-Are-Serbs-and-Croats-the-same-people&p=6568439&viewfull=1#post6568439
I don't see how this changes anything about my opinion. I saw you guys from the perspective of someone raised in R. Moldova, not Romania.
Kenyan Masai are also tall and Papuans are blond.
Romanians look quite different than Serbs on average. I noticed that, and this is also opinion of some other people of various ethnicities.
Seya visited Belgrade in this January, and she said Serbs are singificant lighter pigmented than Romanians, taller, more western looking and have longer faces than Romanians. This is her original post https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?315885-Are-Serbs-and-Croats-the-same-people&p=6568439&viewfull=1#post6568439
A lot of men look like member Dusan
This is true.
This is true.
He looks very Serb, but let's not delude yourself, average Serb had brown eyes and dark brown hair while he has blue eyes and light brown hair.
Serbs are dark people on average.
A descendant of Crimean Bulgarians who would have also lived in Bessarabia before settling in Crimea (full Bulgarian)
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 22.19
2 North_Atlantic 22.13
3 East_Med 19.22
4 West_Med 17.51
5 West_Asian 12.44
6 Red_Sea 4.36
7 Siberian 1.73
8 South_Asian 0.31
9 Oceanian 0.13
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 3.4
2 Romanian 3.99
3 Serbian 7.91
4 Greek_Thessaly 8.6
5 Moldavian 13.49
6 Tuscan 14.17
7 Italian_Abruzzo 14.4
8 Central_Greek 15.06
9 North_Italian 15.31
10 Hungarian 16.05
11 West_Sicilian 16.2
12 East_Sicilian 16.28
13 Croatian 16.56
14 Ashkenazi 18.2
15 Austrian 18.5
16 South_Italian 19.42
17 East_German 20.54
18 French 20.97
19 Portuguese 21.08
20 West_German 21.42
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 90.3% Romanian + 9.7% Syrian @ 1.98
2 91.2% Romanian + 8.8% Bedouin @ 1.99
3 60.3% Central_Greek + 39.7% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.03
4 54% South_Italian + 46% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.05
5 69.5% Central_Greek + 30.5% Estonian @ 2.05
6 68.9% Italian_Abruzzo + 31.1% Erzya @ 2.07
7 91.4% Romanian + 8.6% Samaritan @ 2.1
8 61.3% Central_Greek + 38.7% South_Polish @ 2.1
9 90.5% Romanian + 9.5% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.13
10 93.2% Romanian + 6.8% Saudi @ 2.18
11 91.8% Romanian + 8.2% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.19
12 90.1% Romanian + 9.9% Cyprian @ 2.21
13 91.3% Romanian + 8.7% Jordanian @ 2.21
14 91.5% Romanian + 8.5% Palestinian @ 2.21
15 64.6% Central_Greek + 35.4% Polish @ 2.22
16 51.7% Moldavian + 48.3% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.22
17 68.2% Italian_Abruzzo + 31.8% Kargopol_Russian @ 2.24
18 69.2% Central_Greek + 30.8% Finnish @ 2.24
19 52.8% Moldavian + 47.2% Central_Greek @ 2.25
20 52.4% Central_Greek + 47.6% Croatian @ 2.27
Half Crimean German, half Crimean Bulgarian
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 32.94
2 Baltic 22.12
3 West_Med 15.42
4 East_Med 14.63
5 West_Asian 7.32
6 Red_Sea 3.47
7 South_Asian 1.85
8 East_Asian 1.05
9 Oceanian 0.76
10 Siberian 0.32
11 Amerindian 0.11
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 7.36
2 Romanian 9.31
3 Austrian 9.86
4 Hungarian 10.06
5 West_German 10.68
6 French 10.97
7 Bulgarian 12.04
8 South_Dutch 12.16
9 East_German 12.35
10 Moldavian 13.43
11 North_Italian 13.81
12 Croatian 14.3
13 Portuguese 14.74
14 Spanish_Galicia 15.12
15 Spanish_Cataluna 15.5
16 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 16.33
17 Spanish_Extremadura 16.41
18 Tuscan 16.59
19 North_German 16.78
20 Spanish_Murcia 16.94
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.1% North_Swedish + 49.9% West_Sicilian @ 2.11
2 76.5% Austrian + 23.5% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.35
3 54.5% Greek_Thessaly + 45.5% Swedish @ 2.37
4 76.7% Austrian + 23.3% Italian_Jewish @ 2.47
5 55.2% Greek_Thessaly + 44.8% Norwegian @ 2.51
6 50.6% North_German + 49.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.56
7 52.5% Greek_Thessaly + 47.5% Danish @ 2.57
8 78.7% Austrian + 21.3% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.62
9 69.4% Austrian + 30.6% West_Sicilian @ 2.65
10 72.1% East_German + 27.9% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.67
11 52.8% Greek_Thessaly + 47.2% North_Dutch @ 2.68
12 54.1% Swedish + 45.9% East_Sicilian @ 2.74
13 78.9% Austrian + 21.1% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.75
14 55.3% North_Swedish + 44.7% South_Italian @ 2.78
15 60.9% Serbian + 39.1% French @ 2.8
16 77.2% Austrian + 22.8% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.84
17 51.5% Italian_Abruzzo + 48.5% North_Swedish @ 2.92
18 55.7% Swedish + 44.3% Ashkenazi @ 2.93
19 56.8% Tuscan + 43.2% North_Swedish @ 2.95
20 72.3% East_German + 27.7% Italian_Jewish @ 2.96
Half Crimean Bulgarian, half Ural Russian (Perm krai)
# Population Percent
1 Baltic 34.87
2 North_Atlantic 23.39
3 West_Med 10.66
4 West_Asian 10.04
5 East_Med 9.89
6 Siberian 5.13
7 South_Asian 2.01
8 Red_Sea 1.53
9 Amerindian 1.14
10 East_Asian 0.95
11 Oceanian 0.39
Single Population Sharing:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 5.85
2 Croatian 7.33
3 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.46
4 Hungarian 9.89
5 Ukrainian 10.8
6 South_Polish 11
7 Serbian 11.24
8 Southwest_Russian 12.58
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 12.91
10 Tatar 13.58
11 Romanian 13.81
12 Polish 14
13 East_German 14.57
14 Austrian 14.59
15 Kargopol_Russian 15
16 Russian_Smolensk 15.03
17 Estonian_Polish 15.55
18 Bulgarian 15.57
19 Erzya 16.13
20 Belorussian 16.25
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.8% Kargopol_Russian + 33.2% Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.99
2 80% Moldavian + 20% Chuvash @ 2.29
3 71.3% Moldavian + 28.7% Tatar @ 2.3
4 83.7% Moldavian + 16.3% Mari @ 2.44
5 67.3% Kargopol_Russian + 32.7% Central_Greek @ 2.48
6 70.2% Kargopol_Russian + 29.8% South_Italian @ 2.54
7 65.2% Erzya + 34.8% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.58
8 66.1% Croatian + 33.9% Tatar @ 2.65
9 68.2% Kargopol_Russian + 31.8% East_Sicilian @ 2.81
10 54% Romanian + 46% Erzya @ 2.89
11 64.4% Erzya + 35.6% Tuscan @ 2.96
12 73% Kargopol_Russian + 27% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.98
13 61.8% Kargopol_Russian + 38.2% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.13
14 52.2% Romanian + 47.8% Kargopol_Russian @ 3.15
15 66.8% Estonian + 33.2% Turkish @ 3.16
16 68.3% Kargopol_Russian + 31.7% West_Sicilian @ 3.17
17 51% Kargopol_Russian + 49% Bulgarian @ 3.23
18 66.6% Erzya + 33.4% West_Sicilian @ 3.28
19 84.5% Croatian + 15.5% Afghan_Turkmen @ 3.35
20 66.6% Serbian + 33.4% Chuvash @ 3.4
Pribislav
04-08-2020, 09:07 PM
He looks very Serb, but let's not delude yourself, average Serb had brown eyes and dark brown hair while he has blue eyes and light brown hair.
Serbs are dark people on average.
Light brown/hazel eyes are more common among Serbs, and after that blue.
Most common hair color is dark brown among men, and medium brown among women. Women are lighter pigmented on average than men, but I suppose it's case in every European ethnicity.
Serbs are not swarthy or with olive skin color as classic southern Euro Meds. In skin color Serbs are quite closer to central Euros than to Greeks, South Italians and so on.
vbnetkhio
04-08-2020, 09:15 PM
I have, but Kurd has an infamy for forging every kind of possible data just to be able to justify his theories.
Just ask Davidski's (the Eurogenes guy) opinion on him and his works.
23andme's algorithm is definitely like that. i don't really see how that would help Kurd's theories.
If I were to see an average of even 40% Baltic with academic Serb samples, then I wouldn't have even started this debate in the first place.
I can fully accept that Dusan is a live Serb that I know with 33%. But how can I know that the rest of the Serbs that are used for the 30% average come in proportionate numbers from all over the country, as opposed to being solely from the North, or solely from the South, etc.?
Did you guys even ask yourselves this?
You can't just gather 50 samples from one place, assume that every Serb in Serbia is similar to people from that place and call it a day.
Serbian_new is the average of a dozen members of one Serbian forum. one of them is from Kosovo, one from Vojvodina, one from Croatia, etc. so they fit that criterium.
the Serbian average always turns out like that (similar to Serbian_new) on any group of Serbs larger than 10.
my Serbian+Montenegrin average from 100 samples:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?313828-Serbian-Autosomal-DNA
Serbian average from the site www.macure.net from 69 samples, mostly Serbs from Croatia.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?313828-Serbian-Autosomal-DNA&p=6579292&viewfull=1#post6579292
and also the Serbian new, Serb_Croatia and Serb_Bosnia from Vahaduo, and the Serb_academic_Belgrade i just made.
I don't want to brag, but ideally you should do something like I did. Split your country in 3 halves by latitude (North, Centre, South) and make 3 averages.
Then calculate the average out of these 3 coordinates or weigh them at least appropriately, if for example more Serbs live in the North than South.
[/QUOTE]
the ideal is to split by historical and geographical borders, because they prevented gene flow. or to group genetically similar individuals together. splitting into halves by latitude might group genetically distant people together.
CommonSense
04-08-2020, 09:17 PM
He looks very Serb, but let's not delude yourself, average Serb had brown eyes and dark brown hair while he has blue eyes and light brown hair.
Serbs are dark people on average.
I don't think he has light hair, it looks dark to me. But he gives an overall light impression because his phenotype is more northern.
Ion Basescul
04-08-2020, 09:21 PM
23andme's algorithm is definitely like that. i don't really see how that would help Kurd's theories.
Serbian_new is the average of a dozen members of one Serbian forum. one of them is from Kosovo, one from Vojvodina, one from Croatia, etc. so they fit that criterium.
the Serbian average always turns out like that (similar to Serbian_new) on any group of Serbs larger than 10.
my Serbian+Montenegrin average from 100 samples:
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?313828-Serbian-Autosomal-DNA
Serbian average from the site www.macure.net (http://www.macure.net) from 69 samples, mostly Serbs from Croatia.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?313828-Serbian-Autosomal-DNA&p=6579292&viewfull=1#post6579292
and also the Serbian new, Serb_Croatia and Serb_Bosnia from Vahaduo, and the Serb_academic_Belgrade i just made.
the ideal is to split by historical and geographical borders, because they prevented gene flow. or to group genetically similar individuals together. splitting into halves by latitude might group genetically distant people together.
So if you have that wealth of data, then why are you guys not combining it?
Pribislav
04-08-2020, 09:32 PM
---
Serbs from Croatia (Krajina) calculated by Dušan, 28 samples.
Sorted
1 Baltic 31.76
2 North_Atlantic 24.71
3 West_Med 16.79
4 East_Med 14.62
5 West_Asian 8.22
6 Red_Sea 1.55
7 Siberian 0.81
8 Amerindian 0.56
9 Oceanian 0.38
10 South_Asian 0.43
11 East_Asian 0.22
12 Northeast_African 0.03
13 Sub-Saharan 0.03
https://i.imgur.com/5shGoQ4.jpg
Original post https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?313828-Serbian-Autosomal-DNA&p=6615209&viewfull=1#post6615209
Aspirin
04-08-2020, 09:34 PM
Eurogenes K15 map of people from RM, unmixed.
https://sun9-10.userapi.com/c205620/v205620218/d5c3b/PMV57CKfjds.jpg
Euregenes K15 map of academic samples from Caplani.
https://sun9-40.userapi.com/c205620/v205620218/d5c2d/ZMHD7RgVBxA.jpg
vbnetkhio
04-08-2020, 09:35 PM
So if you have that wealth of data, then why are you guys not combining it?
we don't really have a wealth of data. on gedmatch there's a lot of diaspora Serbs who are a mix of at leats 2 very different regions. pure Serbs don't test much, the already know their ancestry.
we could make some very wide regions for now.
here's a Serbia Serb average, since there are Serb_Croatia and Serb_Bosnia averages. compare those 3, you claimed Serbs from Bosnia and Croatia are ultra northern shifted.
https://i.imgur.com/snyWRLV.png
Ion Basescul
04-08-2020, 09:39 PM
Serbs from Croatia (Krajina) calculated by Dušan, 28 samples.
Sorted
1 Baltic 31.76
2 North_Atlantic 24.71
3 West_Med 16.79
4 East_Med 14.62
5 West_Asian 8.22
6 Red_Sea 1.55
7 Siberian 0.81
8 Amerindian 0.56
9 Oceanian 0.38
10 South_Asian 0.43
11 EasT_Asian 0.22
12 Northeast_African 0.03
13 Sub-Saharan 0.03
https://i.imgur.com/5shGoQ4.jpg
Original post https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?313828-Serbian-Autosomal-DNA&p=6615209&viewfull=1#post6615209
And do you guys pay as much attention to Southern or at least Central counties too?
CommonSense
04-08-2020, 09:42 PM
we don't really have a wealth of data. on gedmatch there's a lot of diaspora Serbs who are a mix of at leats 2 very different regions. pure Serbs don't test much, the already know their ancestry.
we could make some very wide regions for now.
here's a Serbia Serb average, since there are Serb_Croatia and Serb_Bosnia averages. compare those 3, you claimed Serbs from Bosnia and Croatia are ultra northern shifted.
https://i.imgur.com/snyWRLV.png
You left out the woman from Barajevo.
I know a certain 'Aksa' was active on poreklo.rs. He is from southeastern Kosovo (Vitina area) and I know he did a Y-DNA test (besides contributing to poreklo in other ways). Does anyone know if he also did an autosomal and if he posted it somewhere on that forum?
CommonSense
04-08-2020, 09:42 PM
...
vbnetkhio
04-08-2020, 09:43 PM
You left out the woman from Barajevo.
she's sumadija_72
You left out the woman from Barajevo.
I know a certain 'Aksa' was active on poreklo.rs. He is from southeastern Kosovo (Vitina area) and I know he did a Y-DNA test (besides contributing to poreklo in other ways). Does anyone know if he also did an autosomal and if he posted it somewhere on that forum?
I know him. One of his matches is Rethel. I dont think he did autosmal. I havent talked to him in a long time though
Pribislav
04-08-2020, 10:10 PM
I know him. One of his matches is Rethel. I dont think he did autosmal. I havent talked to him in a long time though
I also know Aksa, he is a legend.
He is Serbian R1a supremacist, because his y dna is R1a-M458.
He see I2a-Din Serbs as "Celto-Vlachs" related with sheperd way of life for thousands of years. :lol:
Daos777
04-08-2020, 10:10 PM
http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k13-vahaduo.htm
Add these averages to source as well
Czech_Moravian,32.84,37.68,11.13,3.61,10.17,0,0.90 ,0,0.35,0.65,1.01,1.66,0
Slovak_West,30.27,38.62,13.26,3.73,7.47,1.71,1.99, 0,1.48,0.79,0.62,0.07,0
Russian_West_Siberia,25.02,46.68,8.63,6.69,2.01,1. 14,1.54,1.09,5.02,1.07,1.01,0,0.1
Vlach_Timok,25.17,26.7,18.87,6.81,17.69,1.75,0.2,0 .54,0.21,0.56,1.71,0,0.33
Romania_Moldavia_average,23.92,27.62,16.56,9.91,16 .68,1.51,0.58,0.43,1.36,0.63,0.46,0.16,0.16
Romania_Moldavia_North,23.82,28.53,15.49,10.61,16. 38,1.41,0.68,0.40,1.25,0.60,0.40,0.22,0.21
Romania_Moldavia_South,24.02,26.76,17.58,9.25,16.9 7,1.60,0.48,0.46,1.47,0.65,0.52,0.10,0.12
Moldova_average,22.51,27.80,16.89,10.65,16.33,2.30 ,0.44,0.62,1.19,0.54,0.42,0.10,0.20
Moldova_North,25.89,33.33,14.92,8.89,11.43,1.48,0. 65,0.56,1.47,0.35,0.61,0.17,0.26
Moldova_Centre,21.89,29.51,16.06,10.47,16.10,1.90, 0.53,0.83,1.14,0.81,0.48,0.08,0.20
Moldova_South,21.51,24.20,18.33,11.54,18.60,2.94,0 .29,0.49,1.11,0.42,0.29,0.10,0.18
Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes,24.50,36.97,13.80,8.11,11 .00,1.03,1.07,0.57,1.66,0.66,0.26,0.12,0.25
Serbian_Belgrade_academic,24.42,28.12,17.06,9.06,1 7.09,1.48,0.45,0.36,0.73,0.56,0.54,0.1,0.04
Croatian_new,27.49,33.14,15.16,7.79,14.31,1.74,0.9 7,0.30,0.51,0.67,0.33,0.09,0.13
South_Croat_average,25.97,31.99,16.29,7.83,13.15,1 .91,0.47,0.26,0.66,0.58,0.46,0.12,0.19
than post your data into target, and than click to distance.
Woah I’m Romanian
Target: Daos
Distance: 0.3572% / 0.35715152
19.4 Southwest_Russian
11.2 Lithuanian
10.8 Latvian
10.6 Ukrainian
8.6 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
8.2 Greek_Northern-Thrace
6.6 Estonian
6.6 Macedonian_Greece
6.0 Pomak_Xanthi
3.6 Bulgarian_Pleven
2.6 Erzya
2.0 Croatian_new
2.0 Kol
1.4 Karitiana
0.2 Chamar
0.2 Turk_East_Black_Sea
Target: Daos
Distance: 1.4602% / 1.46017508 | ADC: 0.25x
66.4 Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes
29.0 Southwest_Russian
2.8 Pomak_Xanthi
1.0 Chamar
0.8 Karitiana
Seems like those averages fucked up my distance. I still get Croatian as a close match. Guess I have to be Croatian now. What’s a good Croatian first name for me?
Distance to: Daos
4.06435727 Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes
6.13653811 Bosniak_Tuzla
6.26838097 Croatian
7.01910251 South_Croat_Slavic_Cluster
7.14816760 Ukrainian_Lviv
7.50729645 Moldavian
7.90348025 Ukrainian
7.96682496 Moldova_North
8.39100505 Slovak
8.46095148 Romanian_Botosani
8.49227296 Slovak_West
9.00782993 South_Polish
9.37146200 Croatian_new
9.50781327 Slovenian
9.62545216 Bosnian
9.69475019 Croat_Bosnia
9.88624297 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
9.90888490 South_Croat_average
9.96827969 Southwest_Russian
10.01715965 Serbian_Bosnia
10.53649847 Czech_Moravian
10.55143118 Croat_Split
10.56855241 Ukrainian_Belgorod
10.75544513 HungarianTA
10.77408001 Kaykavian
I also know Aksa, he is a legend.
He is Serbian R1a supremacist, because his y dna is R1a-M458.
He see I2a-Din Serbs as "Celto-Vlachs" related with sheperd way of life for thousands of years. :lol:
R1a supremacist Like Rethel. Blood's thicker than water
So, does anyone has actual conformation those Milkovićs are Serbs?
Because I don't see how can they be included without that, especially with such scores.
Rabbit Hole
04-08-2020, 10:14 PM
Were any Romanians here scoring any Roman or Latin markers? They seem to be close to Serbians on Ged
Woah I’m Romanian
Target: Daos
Distance: 0.3572% / 0.35715152
19.4 Southwest_Russian
11.2 Lithuanian
10.8 Latvian
10.6 Ukrainian
8.6 Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
8.2 Greek_Northern-Thrace
6.6 Estonian
6.6 Macedonian_Greece
6.0 Pomak_Xanthi
3.6 Bulgarian_Pleven
2.6 Erzya
2.0 Croatian_new
2.0 Kol
1.4 Karitiana
0.2 Chamar
0.2 Turk_East_Black_Sea
Target: Daos
Distance: 1.4602% / 1.46017508 | ADC: 0.25x
66.4 Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes
29.0 Southwest_Russian
2.8 Pomak_Xanthi
1.0 Chamar
0.8 Karitiana
Seems like those averages fucked up my distance. I still get Croatian as a close match. Guess I have to be Croatian now. What’s a good Croatian first name for me?
Distance to: Daos
4.06435727 Moldova_Romanian/Moldovan+Ukrainian_Mixes
6.13653811 Bosniak_Tuzla
6.26838097 Croatian
7.01910251 South_Croat_Slavic_Cluster
7.14816760 Ukrainian_Lviv
7.50729645 Moldavian
7.90348025 Ukrainian
7.96682496 Moldova_North
8.39100505 Slovak
8.46095148 Romanian_Botosani
8.49227296 Slovak_West
9.00782993 South_Polish
9.37146200 Croatian_new
9.50781327 Slovenian
9.62545216 Bosnian
9.69475019 Croat_Bosnia
9.88624297 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
9.90888490 South_Croat_average
9.96827969 Southwest_Russian
10.01715965 Serbian_Bosnia
10.53649847 Czech_Moravian
10.55143118 Croat_Split
10.56855241 Ukrainian_Belgorod
10.75544513 HungarianTA
10.77408001 Kaykavian
Borna.
Pribislav
04-08-2020, 10:17 PM
R1a supremacist Like Rethel. Blood's thicker than water
Yea, Aksa is Serbian version of Rethel. Interesting thing is that he look like a Polak. :)
Dušan
04-08-2020, 10:17 PM
we don't really have a wealth of data. on gedmatch there's a lot of diaspora Serbs who are a mix of at leats 2 very different regions. pure Serbs don't test much, the already know their ancestry.
we could make some very wide regions for now.
here's a Serbia Serb average, since there are Serb_Croatia and Serb_Bosnia averages. compare those 3, you claimed Serbs from Bosnia and Croatia are ultra northern shifted.
https://i.imgur.com/snyWRLV.png
As people can see, average Baltic of Serbs from Serbia is 30%.
Thats what I am talking about. We Serbs as an ethnic group, are pretty homogeneous no matter from what part are coming.
And that homogeinity will increase since there is a large scale of intermarriage from different regions.
CommonSense
04-08-2020, 10:17 PM
I also know Aksa, he is a legend.
He is Serbian R1a supremacist, because his y dna is R1a-M458.
He see I2a-Din Serbs as "Celto-Vlachs" related with sheperd way of life for thousands of years. :lol:
I was right, he did take an autosmal test:
https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=1258.msg59228#msg59228
https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=1258.msg47213#msg47213
https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=603.msg46456#msg46456
All the screenshots he posted are now expired, but apparently he scored 68% Eastern Europe on FTDNA! I know that doesn't always translate well to gedmatch, but still he shouldn't plot close to Macedonians.
It would be cool if Dick, Dušan or you contacted him to share more info. I'm certain he would, he's one of the rare Kosovo Serbs interested in genealogy.
Yea, Aksa is Serbian version of Rethel. Interesting thing is that he look like a Polak. :)
Yeah he looks like northern Slav.
Pribislav
04-08-2020, 10:21 PM
I was right, he did take an autosmal test:
https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=1258.msg59228#msg59228
https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=1258.msg47213#msg47213
https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=603.msg46456#msg46456
All the screenshots he posted are now expired, but apparently he scored 68% Eastern Europe on FTDNA! I know that doesn't always translate well to gedmatch, but still he shouldn't plot close to Macedonians.
It would be cool if Dick, Dušan or you contacted him to share more info. I'm certain he would, he's one of the rare Kosovo Serbs interested in genealogy.
I agree.
But I doubt he is active on Poreklo. He was in conflict with moderators (reason is his R1a supremacy), and he left forum if I'm not wrong.
I agree.
But I doubt he is active on Poreklo. He was in conflict with moderators (reason is his R1a supremacy), and he left forum if I'm not wrong.
Probably left. He was legend though.
CommonSense
04-08-2020, 10:27 PM
I agree.
But I doubt he is active on Poreklo. He was in conflict with moderators (reason is his R1a supremacy), and he left forum if I'm not wrong.
His account doesn't seemed to be banned. I too thought he was inactive because I haven't seen him in any recent discussions I've read, but I was hoping some of you might have his email.
Pribislav
04-08-2020, 10:28 PM
So, does anyone has actual conformation those Milkovićs are Serbs?
Because I don't see how can they be included without that, especially with such scores.
Of course they are Serbs. Probably refugess (they live in diaspora). Reason for higher testing of western Serbs is because many of them live in diaspora.
If I showed you results of Kordun Serb Ivančević you will fell from the chair. :)
Ivančevići from Kordun are tested via SDP and they are I2-PH908, they celebrate Miholjdan.
Of course they are Serbs. Probably refugess (they live in diaspora). Reason for higher testing of western Serbs is because many of them live in diaspora.
If I showed you results of Kordun Serb Ivančević you will fell from the chair. :)
Ivančevići from Kordun are trsted vua SDP and they are I2-PH908, they celebrate Miholjdan.
Another surname that is far more common among Croats.
So, you don't have actual evidence those are Serbs. Thank you for letting me know, and go search for Serbs who cluster with Russians next, I am sure you will find them.
Pribislav
04-08-2020, 10:32 PM
His account doesn't seemed to be banned. I too thought he was inactive because I haven't seen him in any recent discussions I've read, but I was hoping some of you might have his email.
He is not banned, just no more coming on forum. He wanted to be banned, but moderators did not want to banned him.
Aksa's ancestors are native Kosovo Serbs, originally from Šar mountain.
Ion Basescul
04-08-2020, 10:32 PM
Eurogenes K15 map of people from RM, unmixed.
https://sun9-10.userapi.com/c205620/v205620218/d5c3b/PMV57CKfjds.jpg
Euregenes K15 map of academic samples from Caplani.
https://sun9-40.userapi.com/c205620/v205620218/d5c2d/ZMHD7RgVBxA.jpg
I wish we could know more about the Caplani samples.
Perhaps, I should consider writing to the authors tomorrow.
CommonSense
04-08-2020, 10:34 PM
Another surname that is far more common among Croats.
So, you don't have actual evidence those are Serbs. Thank you for letting me know, and go search for Serbs who cluster with Russians next, I am sure you will find them.
Not Serbs? These are all surnames present in Banija, near Dvor. The Danish one is her husband's:
https://i.ibb.co/TDGh1yM/Screenshot-2020-04-09-Family-Tree-DNA-Genetic-Testing-for-Ancestry-Family-History-Genealogy.png
I mean you could try asking the people themselves, that's what Mingle used to do - either people replied kindly or they didn't reply at all. I included the gedmatch kits in my original comment.
Pribislav
04-08-2020, 10:37 PM
Another surname that is far more common among Croats.
So, you don't have actual evidence those are Serbs. Thank you for letting me know, and go search for Serbs who cluster with Russians next, I am sure you will find them.
Serbs Ivančevići from Kordun carry "Bunjevac" clade of I2-PH908, about their genetic 24:51 - 25:40 https://youtu.be/MfEjxj6dY5w?t=1491
^^
Some Krajina Serbs carry "Bunjevac" y dna, they originated from Western Herzegovina.
Not Serbs? These are all surnames present in Banija, near Dvor. The Danish one is her husband's:
https://i.ibb.co/TDGh1yM/Screenshot-2020-04-09-Family-Tree-DNA-Genetic-Testing-for-Ancestry-Family-History-Genealogy.png
I mean you could try asking the people themselves, that's what Mingle used to do - either people replied kindly or they didn't reply at all. I included the gedmatch kits in my original comment.
Čorić amd Vukelić are hard core Croatian surnames.
I don't know for others, some sound Serb.
This person looks too be mixed. Čorići are 100% Croats, that I guarantee you. Vukelić are predominately Croats, I know several irl.
Brajenović is Serb surname for sure.
Rogulja and Jajić exist in both just like Milinković. I would say Jajić is more Serb, Rogulja more Croat sounding.
This family is almost certanly mix of Croats and Serbs.
I don't know for their identity though.
Pribislav
04-08-2020, 11:03 PM
Čorić amd Vukelić are hard core Croatian surnames.
I don't know for others, some sound Serb.
This person looks too be mixed. Čorići are 100% Croats, that I guarantee you. Vukelić are predominately Croats, I know several irl.
Serbs with surname Vukelić are from Lika, Kordun and Banija. They celebrate Đurđevdan, Stevanjdan and Nikoljdan.
Have you ever heard for this silicone slut/witch? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesna_Vukelić_Vendi
CommonSense
04-08-2020, 11:04 PM
Čorić amd Vukelić are hard core Croatian surnames.
I don't know for others, some sound Serb.
This person looks too be mixed. Čorići are 100% Croats, that I guarantee you. Vukelić are predominately Croats, I know several irl.
It's probably Ćorić, widely spread surname in Herzegovina :
https://www.poreklo.rs/2012/03/18/poreklo-prezimena-coric/
Aspirin
04-08-2020, 11:06 PM
The most interesting results are these ones. Despite these people are from the same district, part of the same ethnicity, they look like persons of totally different ethnicities, the difference between wife and husband is enormous. This clearly is conected with presence of minorites of Balkan origin in that region. Their child who was tested with two different companies, have different results too.
https://sun9-17.userapi.com/c205620/v205620218/d5c34/GXlShY4WD9k.jpg
It's probably Ćorić, widely spread surname in Herzegovina :
https://www.poreklo.rs/2012/03/18/poreklo-prezimena-coric/
That tested Čorić is a Croat and he is close y-dna match of my father.
I even posted his autosomal in south slavic thread.
Čorić is very common surname in Croatia, you have tennis player Borna Čorić or footballer Ante Čorić.
Čorić families are almost entirely Croats and they are mostly from Herzegovina , barely Serbs, and Bosniaks (Bosanska Posavina). In the past century, relatively most of Croatian residents bearing this family name were born in Herzegovina (Mostar area) and in Herzegovina (Siroki Brijeg area). In Brda in Middle Bosnia every second inhabitant had the family name Ćorić.
The most interesting results are these ones. Despite these people are from the same district, part of the same ethnicity, they look like persons of totally different ethnicities, the difference between wife and husband is enormous. This clearly is conected with presence of minorites of Balkan origin in that region. Their child who was tested with two different companies, have different results too.
https://sun9-17.userapi.com/c205620/v205620218/d5c34/GXlShY4WD9k.jpg
He/she should marge his data from 2 companies, and will get much more precise results with higher SNP count.
Pribislav
04-08-2020, 11:12 PM
Brajenović is Serb surname for sure.
Rogulja and Jajić exist in both just like Milinković. I would say Jajić is more Serb, Rogulja more Croat sounding.
This family is almost certanly mix of Croats and Serbs.
I don't know for their identity though.
Hare we go again.
I said already for Vukelići Serbs from where they are.
Banija Serb surnames site:
Look at ROGULJA among R and ĆORIĆ among Ć https://banija.rs/obicaji/16171-imena-i-prezimena-banijskih-srba-3.html
CommonSense
04-08-2020, 11:13 PM
That tested Čorić is a Croat and he is close y-dna match of my father.
I even posted his autosomal in south slavic thread.
Čorić is very common surname in Croatia, you have tennis player Borna Čorić or footballer Ante Čorić.
There are two variants of that surname, ours is spelled with Ć, not Č and it's not found among any Croats in Krajina, only some other areas.
There are two variants of that surname, ours is spelled with Ć, not Č and it's not found among any Croats in Krajina, only some other areas.
Yes, and your branch of Ćorić was founded by Croat who seem to married some Serb.
ĆORIĆI
(in Zabljak)
Jerko Coric came from Mostar in the 1930s to Zabljak, where he worked as a master craftsman
No Serb is called Jerko, LOL! Jerko is a hard core Croat Catholic name.
Hare we go again.
I said already for Vukelići Serbs from where they are.
Banija Serb surnames site:
Look at ROGULJA among R and ĆORIĆ among Ć https://banija.rs/obicaji/16171-imena-i-prezimena-banijskih-srba-3.html
Vukelići in Rijeka are Croats from Velebit channel, of Bunjevac origin.
Anyway, here are results of my father's match Coric
Distance to: Coric_Siroki_Brijeg
8.93676675 Moldavian
9.21866042 Croat_Zagreb
9.40735351 Kaykavian_Croatian
9.65406650 Moldova_North
9.68345048 Slovenian
10.11468734 HungarianTA
10.35445315 Hungarian_New
10.46291546 Szekely_Hungarian
10.63320654 Croat_Bosnia
10.74771551 Slovak
Target: Coric_Siroki_Brijeg
Distance: 2.1513% / 2.15128656
48.8 Latvian
24.2 French_Basque
22.8 Ossetian
2.6 Serb_North-Macedonia
0.8 Balochi
0.8 Sardinian
Target: Coric_Siroki_Brijeg
Distance: 4.3212% / 4.32117447 | ADC: 0.25x
53.8 Ukrainian_Lviv
17.2 Romanian_Oltenia
13.0 Serb_North-Macedonia
11.6 Welsh
4.4 Ossetian
Pribislav
04-08-2020, 11:25 PM
Yes, and your branch of Ćorić was founded by Croat who seem to married some Serb.
ĆORIĆI
(in Zabljak)
Jerko Coric came from Mostar in the 1930s to Zabljak, where he worked as a master craftsman
No Serb is called Jerko, LOL! Jerko is a hard core Croat Catholic name.
Are you retarded? I posted in previous post list of Banija Serb surnames from Banija Online site (site of Banija Serbs), and Rogulja and Ćorić are among them.
Serbs also had some blind (ćorave) ancestors. That surname was formed in various regions and times from many different blind people.
According to you I am Croatian and not Serb, because my surname exist among Šokci from Našice. :picard1:
CommonSense
04-08-2020, 11:27 PM
Is Mortimer a Croat too?
https://actacroatica.com/hr/surname/Plemi%C4%87/
Are you retarded? I posted in previous post list of Banija Serb surnames from Banija Online site (site of Banija Serbs), and Rogulja and Ćorić are among them.
Serbs only had some blind (ćorav) ancestors. That surname was formed in various region and times from many different blind people.
According to you I am Croatian and not Serb, because my surname exist among Šokci from Našice. :picard1:
Which part you don't understand?
Jerko is name that has nothing to do with Serbs, and it says orthodox Ćorići were founded by Jerko from Mostar, who was obviously a Croat and Catholic.
My own great-grand father from Hvar carried this name.
No big deal, you should deal with it.
Pribislav
04-08-2020, 11:30 PM
Which part you don't understand?
Jerko is name that has nothing to do with Serbs, and it says orthodox Ćorići were founded by Jerko from Mostar, who was obviously a Croat and Catholic.
My own great-grand father from Hvar carried this name.
No big deal, you should deal with it.
Orthodox Ćorići orinated from some blind ancestor, same as Catholic and Muslim Ćorići. Are they related I don't know without their y dna results. I bealive Ćorići among Serbs, Muslims/Bosniaks and Croatians carry various haplogroups, and not even all of same ethnicity/religion are connected to each other.
Orthodox Ćorići orinated from some blind ancestor, same as Catholic and Muslim Ćorići. Are they related I don't know without their y dna results. I bealive Ćorići among Serbs, Muslims/Bosniaks and Croatians carry various haplogroups, and not even all of same ethnicity/religion are connected to each other.
I quoted Serb poreklo site which says what I stated. Deal with it.
Is Mortimer a Croat too?
https://actacroatica.com/hr/surname/Plemi%C4%87/
Surname which doesn't exist outside Karlovac, so most likely some foreigner who assimilated trough time. It's not a Gypsy surname in any case.
Pribislav
04-08-2020, 11:37 PM
I quoted Serb poreklo site which says what I stated. Deal with it.
Who cares even if paternal ancestor of Orthodox Ćorići from Banija was Bunjevac 200 or 300 years ago? Today they are Orthodoxes and Serbs, deal with it!
Šimići from my native village once were Catholics and Bunjevci, but they converted on Orthodoxy in late 18th or early 19th century and mixed with other Orthodox Serbs. They celebrate Sveti Nikola.
Who cares even if paternal ancestor of Orthodox Ćorići from Banija was Bunjevac 200 or 300 years ago? Today they are Orthodoxes and Serbs, deal with it!
Šimići from my native village once were Catholics and Bunjevci, but they converted on Orthodoxy in late 18th or early 19th century and mixed with other Orthodox Serbs. They celebrate Sveti Nikola.
No problem Pribi, identity is most important thing. But we need to realise dinaric Slavs have common origins in many cases.
I don't like this fact, but it's a fact and I came to realize this in last few months.
Before I didn't think it was the case. But let's keep this thread ontopic, which is Moldovans.
CommonSense
04-08-2020, 11:44 PM
Are you retarded? I posted in previous post list of Banija Serb surnames from Banija Online site (site of Banija Serbs), and Rogulja and Ćorić are among them.
Serbs also had some blind (ćorave) ancestors. That surname was formed in various regions and times from many different blind people.
According to you I am Croatian and not Serb, because my surname exist among Šokci from Našice. :picard1:
There is even a similar variant of the surname, Ćorović. The most distinguished bearer of that surname by far was Vladimir Ćorović, renowned Serbian historian, also from Herzegovina.
Pribislav
04-08-2020, 11:45 PM
No problem Pribi, identity is most important thing. But we need to realise dinaric Slavs have common origins in many cases.
I don't like this fact, but it's a fact and I came to realize this in last few months.
Before I didn't think it was the case. But let's keep this thread ontopic, which is Moldovans.
If you want you can open thread about history of ethnic/religious relations, conversion and so on in Dinaric region... I agree, this thread is for Moldavian genetic.
WeirdLookingFellow
04-09-2020, 06:48 AM
This thread is being devoured by the great Yugoslav Autosomal war.
Also I agree that Serbs look different than Romanians on averge - there is a strong overlap but as a group they look different. Taller with longer DInarid faces which are not common in Moldova. I don't agree that they are lighter on average.
Overall it seems that Moldova is like this:
South - Gagauzia = Montenegro like
Central - Montenegro-Serbia mix like
North - Serbia like, bordering on Croatian sometimes
All of this with an added bonus of Asian/Siberian input.
Dušan
04-09-2020, 07:31 AM
This thread is being devoured by the great Yugoslav Autosomal war.
Also I agree that Serbs look different than Romanians on averge - there is a strong overlap but as a group they look different. Taller with longer DInarid faces which are not common in Moldova. I don't agree that they are lighter on average.
Overall it seems that Moldova is like this:
South - Gagauzia = Montenegro like
Central - Montenegro-Serbia mix like
North - Serbia like, bordering on Croatian sometimes
All of this with an added bonus of Asian/Siberian input.
Nice.
Sorry for this off topic.
I like both Moldavian and Romanian people very much. I just wondered if that Gedmatch mixed oracle result of me being +90% Moldavian correct.
And indeed it is. We overlap by autosomal genetics a lot.
I don't understand why Ion has problem with Serbian average value. I respect all his analisis about Moldavian and Romanian populations.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 08:01 AM
Green - Central and North areas.
Red - South.
The most southest person on this map is still unknown, if he is Moldavian, or is something else.
https://sun9-69.userapi.com/c858420/v858420931/1c8ac0/rH3XKpOP2xg.jpg
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 08:30 AM
Green - Central and North areas.
Red - South.
The most southest person on this map is still unknown, if he is Moldavian, or is something else.
https://sun9-69.userapi.com/c858420/v858420931/1c8ac0/rH3XKpOP2xg.jpg
Gura-Galbenei guy is from Centre though.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 08:40 AM
Gura-Galbenei guy is from Centre though.
Is part of the South, Cimișlia district.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 08:45 AM
Is part of the South, Cimișlia district.
Yeah, but 30km from Chisinau. In my K13 averages he's counted in Centre.
What percent of the population live in the North, Center and South of the Republic respectively? I guess Chisinau is mixed like any other capital city.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 08:49 AM
Nice.
Sorry for this off topic.
I like both Moldavian and Romanian people very much. I just wondered if that Gedmatch mixed oracle result of me being +90% Moldavian correct.
And indeed it is. We overlap by autosomal genetics a lot.
I don't understand why Ion has problem with Serbian average value. I respect all his analisis about Moldavian and Romanian populations.
I just questioned the authenticity of those averages, considering all the differing signals that I was getting from commercial tests and academic samples.
I have every right in the world to critique and to have an opinion.
You guys just took it very defensively. At some point even tried to bring phenotypes in as a justification for that, which is absolutely laughable.
People in R. Moldova are at least 10 times lighter on average and some score very similarly with the Serbs.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 08:52 AM
What percent of the population live in the North, Center and South of the Republic respectively? I guess Chisinau is mixed like any other capital city.
Is mixed, exist people from every corner of the country and every corner of Soviet Union.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 08:52 AM
Double post.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 09:00 AM
What percent of the population live in the North, Center and South of the Republic respectively? I guess Chisinau is mixed like any other capital city.
Chisinau is obviously mixed with people from all over the country, plus historic and new minorities.
I'd guess like 35% North, 45% Centre and 20% South maybe.
The North seems to be the region with the highest rate of old people and lowest fertility.
Or maybe the fertility is like everywhere else, but working age people just migrate either to Chisinau or abroad more than in other regions.
https://recensamant.statistica.md/images/harti/Distributia_populatiei_localitati_A3.jpg
https://recensamant.statistica.md/images/harti/Struct_virsta_A3.jpg
Is mixed, exist people from every corner of the country and every corner of Soviet Union.
According to the 2004 census it was 72% Moldovan/Romanian and in 2014 the native share increased to 79%.
Interestingly I once met a Russian girl with the surname Kalarash (I know it's not the Romanian spelling). She said she was 1/4 Moldovan, 3/4 Russian. Looked part Asian with light pigmentation.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 09:10 AM
According to the 2004 census it was 72% Moldovan/Romanian and in 2014 the native share increased to 79%.
People just move from province into the city, in the future this city will be more and more Moldavian. Many minorities, especially from former Soviet countries, form the local Russian speaking community, since many who identify like Russians here are mixed.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 09:11 AM
According to the 2004 census it was 72% Moldovan/Romanian and in 2014 the native share increased to 79%.
Because people get culturally assimilated and there are a lot of mixed marriages. People who are halfies will usually check Moldovan or Romanian in the census, as opposed to their other side.
My mom for example checked Romanian both in 2004 and 2014.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 09:14 AM
Interestingly I once met a Russian girl with the surname Kalarash (I know it's not the Romanian spelling). She said she was 1/4 Moldovan, 3/4 Russian. Looked part Asian with light pigmentation.
And I saw a person on GEDmatch with the surname Chebotarev (from our Cebotari), who had Belarussians and Estonians as closest matches, at like 2 and 4 distance.
People just move from province into the city, in the future this city will be more and more Moldavian. Plus many minorities, especially from former Soviet countries, form the local Russian speaking community, since many who identify like Russians here are mixed.
Do you think Moldo-Slavic mixes tend to lean to Russian identity, not Moldovan?
I can tell you that in Ukraine and Belarus many people with roots in Russia proper have switched to Ukr and Bel identity respectively since 1991. Especially mixed people. But those are extremely close peoples, Moldovans are more different from them.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 09:19 AM
Do you think Moldo-Slavic mixes tend to lean to Russian identity, not Moldovan?
Depends of the parents.
And I saw a person on GEDmatch with the surname Chebotarev (from our Cebotari), who had Belarussians and Estonians as closest matches, at like 2 and 4 distance.
Чеботарёв is a normal Russian surname, I knew people with that surname. At least I had no idea it may be Moldovan.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 09:20 AM
Чеботарёв is a normal Russian surname, I knew people with that surname. At least I had no idea it may be Moldovan.
If it were normal, its root would have meant something in Russian.
It means "of the shoemaker", in case you are curious. The variant in R. Moldova just says "shoemaker".
If it were normal, its root would have meant something in Russian.
It means "of the shoemaker", in case you are curious. The variant in R. Moldova just says "shoemaker".
Russian Wikipedia lists it as a Russian surname derived from "chebot"
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%91%D 0%B2
Look at all those people, they aren't Moldovans at all.
The Romanian language is full of Slavic roots, they lived under Slavic rule/influence for centuries, even before the Russians. Even the Relatinization did not purge all those words.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 09:31 AM
If it were normal, its root would have meant something in Russian.
It means "of the shoemaker", in case you are curious. The variant in R. Moldova just says "shoemaker".
You are partially right, but the word "Ciubota" is of East Slavic/Ukrainian origin. Correct form is "Ciubotaru", but since in RM happen Russification in the past, many such surnames were changed to be close to Ukrainian/Russian form, "Cebotaru/Cebotari".
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 09:32 AM
Double post.
WeirdLookingFellow
04-09-2020, 09:45 AM
You are partially right, but the word "Ciubota" is of East Slavic/Ukrainian origin. Correct form is "Ciubotaru", but since in RM happen Russification in the past, many such surnames were changed to be close to Ukrainian/Russian form, "Cebotaru/Cebotari".
Yep, you and Leto are right on this one.
I've seen the wiki says чеботарь — сапожник. Is чеботарь a Russian archaism? Would explain the whole thing.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 10:11 AM
The Romanian language is full of Slavic roots, they lived under Slavic rule/influence for centuries, even before the Russians. Even the Relatinization did not purge all those words.
Good, now you will sleep better this night.
Yep, you and Leto are right on this one.
I've seen the wiki says чеботарь — сапожник. Is чеботарь a Russian archaism? Would explain the whole thing.
Yes, it is either archaic or dialectal.
Good, now you will sleep better this night.
Lol, what's wrong with that statement? It wasn't condescending, I just pointed out that it's more likely for Moldovans or Romanians to have Slavic roots than for Slavs to have Romanian ones. I don't have a particularly strong opinion on that, why should I?
Ion mentioned that surname and I simply fact-checked his claim.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 10:54 AM
Yep, you and Leto are right on this one.
I've seen the wiki says чеботарь — сапожник. Is чеботарь a Russian archaism? Would explain the whole thing.
That word is borderline non-existent. Both Leto and Aspirin would lie if they'd tell me that they've ever heard of it in Russian before today.
In R. Moldova, Cebotari is the 5th most popular surname and ciubota is the common word for heavy shoes.
And if the Ukrainian version is chobota, then why don't surnames starting with Chobot exist in Ukraine?
They only have surname versions with our chebot.
I literally knew a family with that surname. And the Wiki page has dozens of Russian Chebotaryovs.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 11:34 AM
I literally knew a family with that surname. And the Wiki page has dozens of Russian Chebotaryovs.
Sure, but you didn't know what it meant.
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 11:38 AM
Even the Relatinization did not purge all those words.
No such thing ever happened in the Romanian language (neither "Relatinization" nor a "purge of slavic words").
Calling the modernization of the Romanian language Relatinization is a political stance of anti-Romanian fear-mongers (mostly Austro-Hungarian and Russian, because their states were rabidly anti-Romanian).
Sure, but you didn't know what it meant.
Even if I didn't, that doesn't mean no one else didn't either.
No such thing ever happened in the Romanian language (neither "Relatinization" nor a "purge of slavic words").
Calling the modernization of the Romanian language Relatinization is a political stance of anti-Romanian fear-mongers (mostly Austro-Hungarian and Russian, because their states were rabidly anti-Romanian).
I'm not anti Romanian. Many languages had vocabulary changes. Turkish for example. I didn't even say it was wrong. I actually think it was a good thing overall.
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 11:57 AM
I'm not anti Romanian. Many languages had vocabulary changes. Turkish for example. I didn't even say it was wrong. I actually think it was a good thing overall.
I don't know your stance regarding Romania and Romanians, but you often sound dismissive.
Regardless of that, purposeful "Relatinization of Romanian" is not something that happened, even though there is a wikipedia article about it :D , written unsurprisingly by a Hungarian nationalist (borsoka).
Now, of course, Romanian went through a period of language reform in the 18 and 19th century, like all European languages.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 12:01 PM
I literally knew a family with that surname. And the Wiki page has dozens of Russian Chebotaryovs.
This surname is old here, and in Ukraine he clearly show his origins. The Russian version is common in Eastern Ukraine (Donbass).
Чеботар: Найчастіше - на Буковині
https://ridni.org/karta/%D0%A7%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80
Чеботарь: Найчастіше - на Буджаку
https://ridni.org/karta/%D0%A7%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C
Чеботару: Найчастіше - на Буковині
https://ridni.org/karta/%D0%A7%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%83
I don't know your stance regarding Romania and Romanians, but you often sound dismissive.
Regardless of that, purposeful "Relatinization of Romanian" is not something that happened, even though there is a wikipedia article about it :D , written unsurprisingly by a Hungarian nationalist (borsoka).
Now, of course, Romanian went through a period of language reform in the 18 and 19th century, like all European languages.
By Relatinization they mean borrowing words from Classical Latin and French. I guess that did happen. Romanian is not your typical Romance language because the Romanians are Eastern Orthodox and originally relied on Church Slavonic instead of Latin which was the case in Italy, France and Iberia.
This surname is old here, and in Ukraine he clearly show his origins. The Russian version is common in Eastern Ukraine (Donbass).
Чеботар: Найчастіше - на Буковині
https://ridni.org/karta/%D0%A7%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80
Чеботарь: Найчастіше - на Буджаку
https://ridni.org/karta/%D0%A7%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C
Чеботару: Найчастіше - на Буковині
https://ridni.org/karta/%D0%A7%D0%B5%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%83
I didn't dispute that. But you said yourself it is East Slavic.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 12:04 PM
Even if I didn't, that doesn't mean no one else didn't either.
I'm certainly not questioning that those guys are Russians, or in the case of the person that I saw - Belarussian, but it might be possible that their distant paternal ancestor who introduced the surname was from Moldova.
I can't explain otherwise why there aren't any surnames with the root "Chobot" in Ukraine. Only "Chebot" varieties exist and obviously that also overflew into Russia.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 12:08 PM
I didn't dispute that. But you said yourself it is East Slavic.
Yes, the word Ciubota is Slavic in origin, but archaic, since interaction with East Slavs (Rusyns) was common in the past.
I'm certainly not questioning that those guys are Russians, or in the case of the person that I saw - Belarussian, but it might be possible that their distant paternal ancestor who introduced the surname was from Moldova.
I can't explain otherwise why there aren't any surnames with the root "Chobot" in Ukraine. Only "Chebot" varieties exist and obviously that also overflew into Russia.
I don't know the reason. I actually heard choboty (= big or clumsy shoes) when I was a kid.
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 12:20 PM
By Relatinization they mean borrowing words from Classical Latin and French. I guess that did happen. Romanian is not your typical Romance language because the Romanians are Eastern Orthodox and originally relied on Church Slavonic instead of Latin which was the case in Italy, France and Iberia.
English borrowed massively from French and Latin during the same period, but nobody calls that process Latinization of English. Relatinization of Romanian is a political term, here's why.
There are only 2 ways of modernizing/enriching the vocabulary of a language: borrowing words from a similar language (for ease with declensions, particularly in synthetic languages, such as Romanian) or by creating new words from concatenating old words already in the language. Romanian and Romance languages in general prefer the first method. Germanic languages, or those being under the influence of German culture, use the second method.
Regardless of the enrichment method, Romanian would have increased the proportion of Latin origin words, because the amount of Slavic words in the common Romanian vocabulary was small (less than 10%). Slavic words were very domain specific - they were related to Church, medieval administration, and certain occupations, so they were of little help with modernization, and words had to be adopted from those in use in already modernized societies, such as the French. And so "Relatinization" is a moot point, the correct term should be "modernization".
Btw, only the Slavic words related to administration fell out of use, because the realities they were attached went away in modern times. Nonetheless, they are still in the vocabulary as archaisms.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 12:26 PM
English borrowed massively from French and Latin during the same period, but nobody calls that process Latinization of English. Relatinization of Romanian is a political term, here's why.
There are only 2 ways of modernizing/enriching the vocabulary of a language: borrowing words from a similar language (for ease with declensions, particularly in synthetic languages, such as Romanian) or by creating new words from concatenating old words already in the language. Romanian and Romance languages in general prefer the first method. Germanic languages, or those being under the influence of German culture, use the second method.
Regardless of the enrichment method, Romanian would have increased the proportion of Latin origin words, because the amount of Slavic words in the common Romanian vocabulary was small (less than 10%). Slavic words were very domain specific - they were related to Church, medieval administration, and certain occupations, so they were of little help with modernization, and words had to be adopted from those in use in already modernized societies, such as the French.
Btw, only the Slavic words related to administration fell out of use, because the realities they were attached went away in modern times. Nonetheless, they are still in the vocabulary as archaisms.
That's a normal process for a lot of languages. Russian also went through it and does so everyday, just like any other language.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDSn1HWY8J8
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 12:26 PM
I don't know the reason. I actually heard choboty (= big or clumsy shoes) when I was a kid.
Yes, have the same meaning here, and is a very used word till today. In Romania the surname Ciubotaru is common only in Moldavian region, which shows old East Slavic origins.
https://www.hartanumeromanesti.eu/en/index.php?sur=ciubotaru&s=Search
English borrowed massively from French and Latin during the same period, but nobody calls that process Latinization of English. Relatinization of Romanian is a political term, here's why.
There are only 2 ways of modernizing/enriching the vocabulary of a language: borrowing words from a similar language (for ease with declensions, particularly in synthetic languages, such as Romanian) or by creating new words from concatenating old words already in the language. Romanian and Romance languages in general prefer the first method. Germanic languages, or those being under the influence of German culture, use the second method.
Regardless of the enrichment method, Romanian would have increased the proportion of Latin origin words, because the amount of Slavic words in the common Romanian vocabulary was small (less than 10%). Slavic words were very domain specific - they were related to Church, medieval administration, and certain occupations, so they were of little help with modernization, and words had to be adopted from those in use in already modernized societies, such as the French.
Btw, only the Slavic words related to administration fell out of use, because the realities they were attached went away in modern times. Nonetheless, they are still in the vocabulary as archaisms.
Okay.
Even though I'm no expert in Romanian or even Romance by any means (I know only Russian, English and German plus bits of other languages and general knowledge from studying linguistics), I think you would agree that Chisinau speech is significantly more Slavicized than that of Bucharest. You need to target those folks first, they're actually corrupting the language and need Relatinization :D
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 12:32 PM
Yes, have the same meaning here, and is a very used word till today. In Romania the surname Ciubotaru is common only in Moldavian region, which shows old East Slavic origins.
https://www.hartanumeromanesti.eu/en/index.php?sur=ciubotaru&s=Search
This is the archaic version of Ciubotaru most likely.
https://www.hartanumeromanesti.eu/en/index.php?sur=CIOBOTARU&s=Search
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 12:34 PM
Okay.
Even though I'm no expert in Romanian or even Romance by any means (I know only Russian, English and German plus bits of other languages and general knowledge from studying linguistics), I think you would agree that Chisinau speech is significantly more Slavicized than that of Bucharest. You need to target those folks first, they're actually corrupting the language and need Relatinization :D
There's nothing wrong with that. Our slang in Chisinau has Russian and English flavours. That in Bucharest is not pure by any means. They have Romani and English flavours.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 12:37 PM
This is the archaic version of Ciubotaru most likely.
https://www.hartanumeromanesti.eu/en/index.php?sur=CIOBOTARU&s=Search
Still, even this version is common in Moldavian region. For some reason some slavic words who are used here are very archaic and today are not used by some Slavs, or not used at all. Such a simple word like "Veverița" (Веверица), only recent I discovered what is of Slavic origin.
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 12:37 PM
Okay.
Even though I'm no expert in Romanian or even Romance by any means (I know only Russian, English and German plus bits of other languages and general knowledge from studying linguistics), I think you would agree that Chisinau speech is significantly more Slavicized than that of Bucharest. You need to target those folks first, they're actually corrupting the language and need Relatinization :D
People in Chisinau are bilinguals, they mix languages. When they speak to a Romanian they reduce the number of Russian words to a naught.
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 12:45 PM
There's nothing wrong with that. Our slang in Chisinau has Russian and English flavours. That in Bucharest is not pure by any means. They have Romani and English flavours.
Nobody in Romania speaks with a "Romani flavour". There are only about 20 to 30 gypsy words that Romanians understand, and they're all slang - not for common use.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 12:50 PM
Nobody in Romania speaks with a "Romani flavour". There are only about 20 to 30 gypsy words that Romanians understand, and they're all slang - not for common use.
If we have a Russian flavour then you have Romani flavour. People here either speak properly in Romanian or Russian. What we mix as part of the slang are the same nasol, naspa, sictir and what not because I'm not so familiar with your variety, but in Russian version.
And the reason these borrowings exist in the first place is probably because equivalents didn't exist in Romanian.
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 12:55 PM
If we have a Russian flavour then you have Romani flavour. People here either speak properly in Romanian or Russian. What we mix as part of the slang are the same nasol, naspa, sictir and what not because I'm not so familiar with your variety, but in Russian version.
Like I said, people in Chisinau are bilinguals, they mix Romanian and Russian when they speak to equally bilingual speakers. Many Moldovans in the Republic are native level Russian speakers.
This is not the case with Romanians. Romanians know shit about the gypsy language. 20 to 30 gypsy words, that's all they know, and all of these words are slang, not recommended to use with people you don't know.
WeirdLookingFellow
04-09-2020, 12:56 PM
Nobody in Romania speaks with a "Romani flavour". There are only about 20 to 30 gypsy words that Romanians understand, and they're all slang - not for common use.
A taxi driver from Bucharest is the most disgusting thing you can hear in this country and you canțt deny it.
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 12:58 PM
A taxi driver from Bucharest is the most disgusting thing you can hear in this country and you canțt deny it.
unless he's a gypsy, he won't know more than 20-30 gypsy words.
African American English influences the speech of non-Blacks through urban subculture. Since the Tziganes are sort of the Blacks of Romania, I thought their "gangsta" influence would be stronger.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 01:13 PM
Like I said, people in Chisinau are bilinguals, they mix Romanian and Russian when they speak to equally bilingual speakers. Many Moldovans in the Republic are native level Russian speakers.
This is not the case with Romanians. Romanians know shit about the gypsy language. 20 to 30 gypsy words, that's all they know, and all of these words are slang, not recommended to use with people you don't know.
We was under Russian Empire and Soviet Union, here happen process of russification in the past, plus the Russian media, music, TV is still very popular here. Before I move to urban area, I didn't know any Russian. In you case, is the opposite, I don't remember Romania to be under some Gypsy Empire, but Romania is very cucked by Gypsies today, were Romanians use many words of Gypsy origin in their language, and they are more than 20-30, plus some are not slang, but common words. Feel the difference.
In Moldova exist Gypsies too (50-100.000), but I don't see Moldavians to use Gypsy words.
We was under Russian Empire and Soviet Union, here happen process of russification in the past, plus the Russian media, music, TV is still very popular here. Before I move to urban area, I didn't know any Russian. In you case, is the opposite, I don't remember Romania to be under some Gypsy Empire, but Romania is very cucked by Gypsies today, were Romanians use many words of Gypsy origin in their language, and they are more than 20-30, plus some are not slang, but common words. Feel the difference.
I think I already asked you - is Russian media more popular in Moldova than Romanian? I mean from the countries.
In Moldova exist Gypsies too (50-100.000), but I don't see Moldavians to use Gypsy words.
50-100,000? The census said 12k in 2004 and 9k in 2014. Do they declare themselves Moldovans?
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 01:19 PM
I think I already asked you - is Russian media more popular in Moldova than Romanian? I mean from the countries.
Both are popular.
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 01:21 PM
We was under Russian Empire and Soviet Union, here happen process of russification in the past, plus the Russian media, music, TV is still very popular here. Before I move to urban area, I didn't know any Russian. In you case, is the opposite, I don't remember Romania to be under some Gypsy Empire, but Romania is very cucked by Gypsies today, were Romanians use many words of Gypsy origin in their language, and they are more than 20-30, plus some are not slang, but common words. Feel the difference.
In Moldova exist Gypsies too (50-100.000), but I don't see Moldavians to use Gypsy words.
make a list of those gypsy words you claim you hear, let see if it gets over 30.
this is just an excuse used by anti-unionists, moldovenists - I heard it a billion times and it's based on nothing.
make the list, put up or shut up.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 01:24 PM
50-100,000? The census said 12k in 2004 and 9k in 2014. Do they declare themselves Moldovans?
Some yes, some can declare as Ukrainians and even Russians, some don't declare their identity at all. But they are more in the country.
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 01:24 PM
African American English influences the speech of non-Blacks through urban subculture. Since the Tziganes are sort of the Blacks of Romania, I thought their "gangsta" influence would be stronger.
nope. 20 to 30 gypsy words is all Romanians can understand, after having gypsies here for almost a thousand years.
this tells you everything you need to know about the amount of contact Romanians had/have with gypsies.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 01:26 PM
Like I said, people in Chisinau are bilinguals, they mix Romanian and Russian when they speak to equally bilingual speakers. Many Moldovans in the Republic are native level Russian speakers.
This is not the case with Romanians. Romanians know shit about the gypsy language. 20 to 30 gypsy words, that's all they know, and all of these words are slang, not recommended to use with people you don't know.
Thanks for teaching me about my city. You can now go back and re-read what I said.
nope. 20 to 30 gypsy words is all Romanians can understand, after having gypsies here for almost a thousand years.
this tells you everything you need to know about the amount of contact Romanians had/have with gypsies.
I guess the Romani language is pretty much dying out. It's like in Spain - only a few slang words have survived plus improper grammar and pronunciation.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 01:28 PM
make a list of those gypsy words you claim you hear, let see if it gets over 30.
this is just an excuse used by anti-unionists, moldovenists - I heard it a billion times and it's based on nothing.
make the list, put up or shut up.
This don't have anything to do with moldovenism, just simple facts.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 01:32 PM
I guess the Romani language is pretty much dying out. It's like in Spain - only a few slang words have survived plus improper grammar and pronunciation.
Yeah, it is, at least in Romania, but probably in R. Moldova too. Our Gypsies usually have Russian as their native language believe it or not.
Here's the proportion of Gypsies in each county in Romania, who can speak the Roma language
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/Romi_Romanyfoni_Romania.svg/1280px-Romi_Romanyfoni_Romania.svg.png
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 01:32 PM
Thanks for teaching me about my city. You can now go back and re-read what I said.
maybe i didn't read you right,
but the amount of Russian use in Chisinau is incomparable with the handful of gypsy words Romanians understand.
how many Moldovans understand Russian? maybe half, I don't know.
but certainly no Romanian understands Romani, none.
Gypsies in Russia, from what I've heard myself, use a mixture of Romani and Russian among themselves. They're not full Russian monolinguals.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 01:35 PM
Our Gypsies usually have Russian as their native language believe it or not.
Yes, Russian language is very popular between Gypsies here.
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 01:35 PM
I guess the Romani language is pretty much dying out. It's like in Spain - only a few slang words have survived plus improper grammar and pronunciation.
I have no idea if Romani is dying out or not, but Romanians certainly are not familiar with it by any stretch of imagination.
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 01:37 PM
This don't have anything to do with moldovenism, just simple facts.
do not avoid the question.
do Romanians know more than 20 or 30 Romani words or not? if yes, compile the list of words.
and yes, this bullshit that Romanians are mixed with gypsies and Romanian has gypsy words are pillars of Moldovenism. you push this nonsense everyday.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 01:37 PM
maybe i didn't read you right,
but the amount of Russian use in Chisinau is incomparable with the handful of gypsy words Romanians understand.
how many Moldovans understand Russian? No Romanian understands Romani, none, zero.
Just because everyone understands Russian, doesn't mean that they will suddenly start speaking in Creole.
Nobody mixes French with Romanian, even though it's mandatory for 5 years.
That's why I said, that the extent to which Russian is used when speaking in Romanian is usually limited to simple interjections and slang.
Sometimes, people might forget a word in Romanian and replace it with Russian, but that depends on the person.
Just because everyone understands Russian, doesn't mean that they will suddenly start speaking in Creole.
Nobody mixes French with Romanian, even though it's mandatory for 5 years.
That's why I said, that the extent to which Russian is used when speaking in Romanian is usually limited to simple interjections and slang.
Sometimes, people might forget a word in Romanian and replace it with Russian, but that depends on the person.
Usually what CIS/ex-Soviet peoples borrow from Russian is disgusting profanity - it's bad enough in Russian but in other languages many times worse. Years ago there was a video from Afghanistan, a local boy would have lived among Latvian NATO soldiers and learned to speak "Latvian". Guess what? He used блядь in every other sentence.
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 01:49 PM
Just because everyone understands Russian, doesn't mean that they will suddenly start speaking in Creole.
Nobody mixes French with Romanian, even though it's mandatory for 5 years.
That's why I said, that the extent to which Russian is used when speaking in Romanian is usually limited to simple interjections and slang.
It's more than that. The moment you set foot in RM you hear words like marshrutka etc.
However, Romanian used in RM is improving every day, in another generation it will be indistinguishable from that in Romanian Moldova.
anyways, the point was that Moldovans current knowledge of Russian is incomparable greater than Romanians knowledge of Romani. I see no way one could deny this. Romanians simply don't understand Romani at all.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 01:50 PM
Before I move to urban area
Did you move to Balti or Chisinau? I'm curious to know if people from the districts in the North bother to settle in Balti or if they mostly choose Chisinau.
I've never seen the town properly, but always from the periphery, when I used to visit my great-grandparents in Briceni.
It's more than that. The moment you set foot in RM you hear words like marshrutka etc.
However, Romanian used in RM is improving every day, in another generation it will be indistinguishable from that in Romanian Moldova.
If mass immigration of guest workers to Russia and by extension to Ukraine continues, the Russian influence won't fade but will only increase. When like half a country has to look for work in another country, it's really a no-brainer that the host country is gonna have a lasting influence on migrant speech.
WeirdLookingFellow
04-09-2020, 01:56 PM
unless he's a gypsy, he won't know more than 20-30 gypsy words.
I don't think you understand - Bucharest speech, lingo or whatever you call it sounds gypsy influenced. That doesn't mean that they use Gypsy words, it just sounds horrible.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 01:56 PM
Did you move to Balti or Chisinau? I'm curious to know if people from the districts in the North bother to settle in Balti or if they mostly choose Chisinau.
I've never seen the town properly, but always from the periphery, when I used to visit my great-grandparents in Briceni.
Chișinău, but now I am not in this city. Some of course go to Bălți too, but most of people choose the capital.
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 01:57 PM
If mass immigration of guest workers to Russia and by extension to Ukraine continues, the Russian influence won't fade but will only increase. When like half a country has to look for work in another country, it's really a no-brainer that the host country is gonna have a lasting influence on migrant speech.
very few Moldovans of Romanian origin go to work in Russia - they prefer to get Romanian passports and work in the EU.
the only Moldovans who go to Russia were ethnically Russian or Ukrainian and they rarely return.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 01:57 PM
Usually what CIS/ex-Soviet peoples borrow from Russian is disgusting profanity - it's bad enough in Russian but in other languages many times worse. Years ago there was a video from Afghanistan, a local boy would have lived among Latvian NATO soldiers and learned to speak "Latvian". Guess what? He used блядь in every other sentence.
Same here, interjections like бля, блядь, блин, йопта, пиздец, ебать, ахуеть etc. Also swear words and expressions
That's why I was telling ixulescu that for native Romanian speakers, the extent to which they mix with Russian is usually limited to slang, except cases when someone forgets a word.
In my family, sure, my parents usually spoke a creole between themselves and do so with us to this day, but that's mostly a particularity of my and other mixed households.
In a lot of my friends' family it was different.
In Chisinau at least though, not only Russian has influenced the local speech, but Romanian has also added local variety into Russian.
https://newsmaker.md/rus/novosti/moldavskij-russkij-kak-rumynskaya-rech-povliyala-na-russkij-yazyk-v-moldove/
very few Moldovans of Romanian origin go to work in Russia - they prefer to get Romanian passports and work in the EU.
the only Moldovans who go to Russia were ethnically Russian or Ukrainian and they rarely return.
That's not true. I've met quite a few Romanian-speaking Moldovans in Russia.
Same here, interjections like бля, блядь, блин, йопта, пиздец, ебать, ахуеть etc. Also swear words and expressions
That's why I was telling ixulescu that for native Romanian speakers, the extent to which they mix with Russian is usually limited to slang, except cases when someone forgets a word.
In my family, sure, my parents usually spoke a creole between themselves and do so with us to this day, but that's mostly a particularity of my household.
In a lot of my friends' family it was different.
In Chisinau at least though, not only Russian has influenced the local speech, but Romanian has also added local variety into Russian.
https://newsmaker.md/rus/novosti/moldavskij-russkij-kak-rumynskaya-rech-povliyala-na-russkij-yazyk-v-moldove/
That's pretty bad and ugly. I would recommend avoiding using that kind of barbarisms. I personally don't use them in Russian anymore.
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 02:04 PM
That's not true. I've met quite a few Romanian-speaking Moldovans in Russia.
there should be some, but few.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 02:10 PM
It's more than that. The moment you set foot in RM you hear words like marshrutka etc.
However, Romanian used in RM is improving every day, in another generation it will be indistinguishable from that in Romanian Moldova.
anyways, the point was that Moldovans current knowledge of Russian is incomparable greater than Romanians knowledge of Romani. I see no way one could deny this. Romanians simply don't understand Romani at all.
I personally at least, never said that Romanians are fluent in Romani, because not even Romani people from Romania are.
What I claimed is that you use Gypsy words in Romanian, the same way we use Russian.
When we want to speak Russian properly, we switch to Russian instead of creating a porridge.
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 02:20 PM
I personally at least, never said that Romanians are fluent in Romani, because not even Romani people from Romania are.
What I claimed is that you use Gypsy words in Romanian, the same way we use Russian.
This claim is false for the simple reason that Romanians only know about 20 to 30 gypsy words, that's all. It's simply not possible for Romanians to use gypsy words the same way Moldovans use Russian words.
Romanians can't even be polite to gypsies and tell them Hi, or How are you or Thank you. No Romanian knows how to say any of that. The situation is radically different, there's no point in drawing false parallels.
That's pretty bad and ugly. I would recommend avoiding using that kind of barbarisms. I personally don't use them in Russian anymore.
Are there any good examples of this creole ... on youtube for instance? I am curious how Russoromanian would be like.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 03:53 PM
That's pretty bad and ugly. I would recommend avoiding using that kind of barbarisms. I personally don't use them in Russian anymore.
Me and my inner circle of friends rarely swear, so we don't use any kind of swear words, not just Russian.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 04:25 PM
Are there any good examples of this creole ... on youtube for instance? I am curious how Russoromanian would be like.
I don't think so. In my family we would speak full sentences or parts of a sentence in Romanian followed by full sentences or parts in Russian and so on. That's our "creole".
But if you are curious about the local slang, then these are some examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E43pfAWkdnw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj2r18ivF2c
Refren x 2:
Nu trăiești tu viața mea! Bazar ushis, blea
Mie-mi plași anumi-așa! Băi, atibisi, a
Bag pula-n parerea ta și-n tot și ai mai sfânt
Nu mă poți tu limita, îs Jăka și-s bandit
Strofa 1:
„Uă, șini-i Jăka, nahuia aud di dânsu-atât
El și, v naturi-i dalbaiob, di credi câ-i bandit
Îl fut în gât, dacă-l prind - l-am zaibit, ca Moroșanu
O belit pula, cu alte cuvinte, drăcălanu'”
Iaca așa, treși anu', zi di zi prikoali noi
Bratka, ia scoati banu', s plătim la hăitori
Că-i Anu' Nou, mâini-poimâini și n-am luat pizdon, prikini
S' vedi câ ii îs numa pi internet rechini
Ca niști câini legați la cușcă, hamăie, da' nu ti mușcă
Sperieți di și s-audi, mai rău ca di pușcă
Strușcâ s aleji, șini-nțăleji - ințăleji
Jăka n-ari fricâ di leji, Jăka fași lejea
Blejii comenteazâ, n-au cum s facâ mai mult
Jăka s distrează, campion absolut
N-am s uit nișodată, nișodată n-am s iert
Eu nu-s Mafia, bratan, eu îs mai rau, net-net
Refren x 2:
Strofa 2:
Toati dvijăniile-s pi stop, când vini Jăka
Din buzunari tu scoți tot, să-i dăi lu Jăka
Când belești pula pi raion - îl suni pi Jăka
Te-o folosit ca pe-un gandon - da, Jăka, Jăka
Tot Jăka te-o-nvațat s șii pizdos la tini-n sat
Tu s pari că uiți, da' iaca Jăka n-o uitat
N-am fumat di vreo lunâ, s' nu crez că m-am lăsat
Băi, eu când n-am marfă bună, nu fumez mărar uscat
Iaca ieri m-am îmbătat, az ni-i rău ca nișodată
Da zato, m-am distrat - eu trăiesc numa odată
N-am regreti, frunză verdi eu nu tai la cuciu-cuciu
Dimineața m-am trezât lângă Nicoleta Luciu
Am ahuit di prihod, ni-am dat srazu două palmi
Iaca aista rasklad, așa prikoali mai dă Doamni
Când toatâ lumea doarmi, Jăka fași stratejii
Tari-i plac lu Jăka banii, vreu o mie de mii
Refren x 2:
Îs Jăka și-s bandit x 4
Mik20
04-09-2020, 04:55 PM
Yes, the word Ciubota is Slavic in origin, but archaic, since interaction with East Slavs (Rusyns) was common in the past.
Nobody here ate ciabatta? Ciubota is not of Slavic origin. In Moldova the boots were called ciubota, while in Wallachia they were called with a Hungarian word - cizma. As with countless other moldavian words, ciubota was purged and replaced with the walahian word after Moldavia ceased to exist. Today the last name Ciubotaru and Ciubotariu are marks for people of moldavian origin, no matter where the fate moved them.
Mik20
04-09-2020, 04:59 PM
double post
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 05:01 PM
Nobody here ate ciabatta? Ciubota is not of Slavic origin. In Moldova the boots were called ciubota, while in Wallachia they were called with a Hungarian word - cizma. As with countless other moldavian words, ciubota was purged and replaced with the walahian word after Moldavia ceased to exist. Today the last name Ciubotaru and Ciubotariu are marks for people of moldavian origin, no matter where the fate moved them.
Welcome back ;)
Mik20
04-09-2020, 05:10 PM
Are moldavians related to serbians? A little known fact is that the founder on the Moldavian state and his retinue, as well as an entire nation that settled Moldavia came from Serbia. I mean the voivode Bogdan, son of Micula, later known as Bogdan of Cuhea or Bogdan the Founder. He negotiated a long time withe the king of Hungary to move from -his country- , somewhere in Serbia, into Hungary to defend the borders against the tatars. It happened around the year 1330. He was not an ordinary guy as the King of Hungary payed a lot of personal attention to his move to Hungary and sent his highest officials to negotiate for a long time. Hungarians were soon to regret it, though.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 05:15 PM
Are moldavians related to serbians? A little known fact is that the founder on the Moldavian state and his retinue, as well as an entire nation that settled Moldavia came from Serbia. I mean the voivode Bogdan, son of Micula, later known as Bogdan of Cuhea or Bogdan the Founder. He negotiated a long time withe the king of Hungary to move from -his country- , somewhere in Serbia, into Hungary to defend the borders against the tatars. It happened around the year 1330. He was not an ordinary guy as the King of Hungary payed a lot of personal attention to his move to Hungary and sent his highest officials to negotiate for a long time. Hungarians were soon to regret it, though.
Source for the claim in bold?
Mik20
04-09-2020, 05:42 PM
The source are the documents concerning the history Moldavia.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 05:44 PM
The source are the documents concerning the history Moldavia.
Poor attempt
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 05:50 PM
The source are the documents concerning the history Moldavia.
:rotfl:
vbnetkhio
04-09-2020, 06:02 PM
Are moldavians related to serbians?
i think Serbs came to the Balkans from modern day Moldova in the 7th century..
something like this
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Migration_of_serbs03_02.png
Mik20
04-09-2020, 06:10 PM
@basescu
Use google and search for the Hungarian documents concerning Bogdan son of Micula, Bogdan of Cuhea and founding of Moldavia. To this add the Moldavian traditions for the founding of Moldavia present in several old chronicles. The most important is The legend of Roman and Vlahata. To this it can be added the first Polish accounts about Moldavia. These are most important of the sources, but there are also linguistic and archaeological proofs.
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 06:14 PM
i think Serbs came to the Balkans from modern day Moldova in the 7th century..
something like this
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Migration_of_serbs03_02.png
this map is for 7th century not 14th.
Bogdan, Dragos etc were Romanian (Vlach) nobles from Maramures. Spare us from your fruitful imagination.
vbnetkhio
04-09-2020, 06:22 PM
this map is for 7th century not 14th.
Bogdan, Dragos etc were Romanian (Vlach) nobles from Maramures. Spare us from your fruitful imagination.
when did i claim it was the 14th? lol
she asked if Serbs and Moldavians are related, and i replied i think they are, back from the 7th century.
Cumansky
04-09-2020, 06:24 PM
Some more evidence!
97208
i think Serbs came to the Balkans from modern day Moldova in the 7th century..
something like this
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Migration_of_serbs03_02.png
Serbs never lived in that region, they migrated to Sorb area from Danubian territory, and to Balkans from Germany/Czechia.
This map is a fantasy, placing Serbs in location of white Croats.
It's amusing how some of you even try to claim territory where Croats lived.
Serbs have no connection to that area whatsoever.
Mik20
04-09-2020, 06:28 PM
this map is for 7th century not 14th.
Bogdan, Dragos etc were Romanian (Vlach) nobles from Maramures. Spare us from your fruitful imagination.
Only Dragos was from Maramures, but not Romanian, there was no such thing then, unless you prove me wrong, which I know it is impossible. Bogdan and his people were from Stari Vlah and they chased away the descendants of Dragos who were Hungarian puppets.
Cumansky
04-09-2020, 06:30 PM
Some more evidence!
97208
Dragos!
vbnetkhio
04-09-2020, 06:32 PM
Serb never lived in that region, they migrated to Sorb area from Danubian territory.
This map is a fantasy, placing Serbs in location of white Croats.
It's amusing ow some of you even try to claim territory where Croats lived.
that's why i said "something like this". Croats lived in Galicia and Transcarpathia while Serbs perhaps somewhere in central Moldova.
Cumansky
04-09-2020, 06:34 PM
that's why i said "something like this". Croats lived in Galicia and Transcarpathia while Serbs perhaps somewhere in central Moldova.
No one knows where Croats came from they are some conglamoration of tribes local and nomadic, but I don't think anyone really knows where Serbs originated either
I know my my origin tho!
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 06:37 PM
Only Dragos was from Maramures, but not Romanian, there was no such thing then, unless you prove me wrong, which I know it is impossible. Bogdan and his people were from Stari Vlah and they chased away the descendants of Dragos who were Hungarian puppets.
Romanians never called themselves Vlach, idiot.
Vlach is an exonym.
Romanians always called themselves Romanian. The official name of the first Romanian principality (Wallachia, another exonym) was Țara Românească (Цара Рoмѫнѣскъ). That name dates before Moldova was founded, now cry.
Cumansky
04-09-2020, 06:39 PM
Romanians never called themselves Vlach, idiot.
Vlach is an exonym.
Romanians always called themselves Romanian. The official name of the first Romanian principality (Wallachia, another exonym) was Țara Românească (Цара Рoмѫнѣскъ). That name dates before Moldova was founded, now cry.
Vlahs from Kingdom of Hungary
Sorry Romania is 19th century or 20th century inventionisssio
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 06:52 PM
Vlahs from Kingdom of Hungary
Sorry Romania is 19th century or 20th century inventionisssio
This is incorrect. Only the Romanian Kingdom was formed in the 19th century, but the first Romanian principalities with dynastic rulers were formed in the 13th century, one of them called Țara Românească, which literally means Romania.
There used to be Romanian duchies even earlier than that, but they were not stable states with strong borders.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 07:21 PM
Thanks for bumping my thread :)
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 07:23 PM
Thanks for bumping my thread :)
Did you find some new kits?
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 07:30 PM
i think Serbs came to the Balkans from modern day Moldova in the 7th century..
something like this
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Migration_of_serbs03_02.png
In that place is Podolia, not Moldova.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 07:30 PM
Did you find some new kits?
No, I haven't worked on any of the regions yet.
vbnetkhio
04-09-2020, 07:33 PM
In that place is Podolia, not Moldova.
yeah, it's a simplified map
Mik20
04-09-2020, 07:41 PM
This is incorrect. Only the Romanian Kingdom was formed in the 19th century, but the first Romanian principalities with dynastic rulers were formed in the 13th century, one of them called Țara Românească, which literally means Romania.
There used to be Romanian duchies even earlier than that, but they were not stable states with strong borders.
It was a thing called Teara Rumaneasca, but not Romania. First mentioning of Teara Rumaneasca is from 16 century. It meant land of the serfs.
https://tiparituriromanesti.wordpress.com/2015/07/04/matei-basarab-imputerniceste-pe-bunea-logofat-sa-i-puna-la-lucru-pe-niste-rumani-care-s-au-inscris-la-darabani-si-calarasi-1632/
https://tiparituriromanesti.wordpress.com/2015/07/05/matei-basarab-porunceste-unor-rumani-sa-si-dea-toate-obligatiile-manastirii-radu-voda-1632/
† Milostiu bojieiu, Io Matei voivoda i gospodină, vnuc Băsăraba voivoda. Davat gospodstvo mi siiu povealenii gospodstva mi slugii domnii meale Bunii logofet, ca să fie volnic cu ceastă carte a domnii meale, să-și ții ai lui rumâni, anume: Dobre, care se-au scris la dărăbani și Socolea, care se-au scris la călărași; să și-i ții și alți rumâni din Grădiște, carii se vor fi scris au călărași au dărăbani, tot să fii volnic cu cartea domni meale să le ia armele și să-i pue la lucru cu alați rumâni denpreună. Și care nu va asculta, să fii volnic pârcălabul lui să-l bată multu, că domnii meale nu-m trebuescu slujitori rumânii boiarilor și birnicii.
Așijderea și voi, căpitanilor și iuzbașilor, veri la cine se vor afla de acești rumâni ai Bunii logofet, în vreame ci veți vedea cartea domnii meale, iar voi să căutați veri să vor fi scriși la călărași veri la dărăbani, iar voi să-i dați pre mâna ominilor Bunii logofet, să-i ducă la moșiile lor, să aibă a-și darea dajdea și lucrul boerescu.
Crez, domnia mea v-am fost dat de câteva ori învățătură, rumâni boeriști și bernici să nu-i scriiți nici la călărași, nici la dărăbani.
Aceasta vă grăescu domnia mea […]”
vbnetkhio
04-09-2020, 07:50 PM
Did you find some new kits?
these 2 have ethnic Romanian names
M910861
NQ5772430
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 07:50 PM
It was a thing called Teara Rumaneasca, but not Romania. First mentioning of Teara Rumaneasca is from 16 century. It meant land of the serfs.
Dude you're beyond stupidy, you require medical attention.
Tara Romaneasca literaly means Romanian Country, which is exactly the same thing as Romania - they are synonyms.
And no, Teara Rumaneasca doesn't mean the land of serfs, what an idiotic thing to say. Ruman, also Serb and vecin (meaning neighbor) had the informal meaning of serf, pointing out how widespread servitude was in the principalities. But no, Teara Rumaneasca never referred to serfs, keep your Dodonist propaganda to yourself.
Nurzat
04-09-2020, 07:51 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TytxpWMhcjU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AfXLxJeP-s
Mik20
04-09-2020, 07:58 PM
Dude you're beyond stupidy, you require medical attention.
Tara Romaneasca literaly means Romanian Country, which is exactly the same thing as Romania - they are synonyms.
And no, Teara Rumaneasca doesn't mean the land of serfs, what an idiotic thing to say. Ruman, also Serb and vecin (meaning neighbor) had the informal meaning of serf, pointing out how widespread servitude was in the principalities. But no, Teara Rumaneasca never referred to serfs, keep your Dodonist propaganda to yourself.
Tara/teara Rumaneasca was informal as well, the official name was Ungrovlahia. There was no such thing as Tara Romaneasca. You can prove me wrong of course. A country must have countless documents with it's name.
„Pravila acesta iaste direptătoriu de leage, tocmelea sfinților apostoli tocmite de 7 săboară cătrî aceasta și a preacuvioșilor părinți învățătorilor lumie. Tipăritu-se-au în tipari prealuminatului domn Io Matei Basarabî voevodî a toatî Țara Ungrovlahiei, în mănăstir Govora, văleato 7149, iarî de la nașterea lui H(risto)s 1640.
What ethnicity was Matei Basarab if he was refering to the serfs as rumani? Well it is actually known. The Brancovenesti, as even Cantemir wrote, were in fact Bulgarians.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 07:59 PM
Did you find some new kits?
I got back to work.
Person from Gagauzia. This is the first full Gagauz in our table.
https://nume.casata.md/index.php?l=ro&action=viewnume&id=19443
https://forebears.io/surnames/cuiujuclu
<tbody>
#
Population
Percent
1
Baltic
22.57
2
East_Med
21.59
3
North_Atlantic
20.35
4
West_Med
20.05
5
West_Asian
9.76
6
Red_Sea
1.78
7
Oceanian
1.17
8
Sub-Saharan
0.83
9
Amerindian
0.71
10
South_Asian
0.52
11
East_Asian
0.44
12
Siberian
0.24
</tbody>
Single Population Sharing:
<tbody>
#
Population (source)
Distance
1
Bulgarian
3.7
2
Romanian
5.99
3
Greek_Thessaly
7.23
4
Serbian
9.78
5
Tuscan
13.61
6
Central_Greek
14.33
7
Italian_Abruzzo
14.52
8
Moldavian
14.87
9
North_Italian
14.98
10
West_Sicilian
15.2
11
East_Sicilian
15.51
12
Ashkenazi
16.89
13
Croatian
17.77
14
Hungarian
17.9
15
South_Italian
18.5
16
Austrian
20.45
17
Portuguese
21.37
18
Spanish_Galicia
22.1
19
Spanish_Extremadura
22.23
20
East_German
22.26
</tbody>
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
<tbody>
#
Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance
1
92.7%
Bulgarian
+
7.3%
Sardinian
@
2.46
2
78.8%
Greek_Thessaly
+
21.2%
Ukrainian
@
2.53
3
72.4%
Greek_Thessaly
+
27.6%
Croatian
@
2.71
4
84.2%
Greek_Thessaly
+
15.8%
Lithuanian
@
2.72
5
82%
Greek_Thessaly
+
18%
Estonian_Polish
@
2.72
6
92.6%
Bulgarian
+
7.4%
Tunisian
@
2.75
7
90.4%
Bulgarian
+
9.6%
Algerian_Jewish
@
2.76
8
68.6%
Greek_Thessaly
+
31.4%
Moldavian
@
2.76
9
78.2%
Greek_Thessaly
+
21.8%
Ukrainian_Lviv
@
2.77
10
73.2%
Bulgarian
+
26.8%
Greek_Thessaly
@
2.78
11
93%
Bulgarian
+
7%
Mozabite_Berber
@
2.8
12
81%
Greek_Thessaly
+
19%
Polish
@
2.8
13
80.9%
Greek_Thessaly
+
19.1%
Southwest_Russian
@
2.83
14
92.9%
Bulgarian
+
7.1%
Algerian
@
2.83
15
82.5%
Greek_Thessaly
+
17.5%
Belorussian
@
2.84
16
78.9%
Greek_Thessaly
+
21.1%
South_Polish
@
2.85
17
93.3%
Bulgarian
+
6.7%
Moroccan
@
2.85
18
82%
Greek_Thessaly
+
18%
Russian_Smolensk
@
2.85
19
84.2%
Greek_Thessaly
+
15.8%
Estonian
@
2.87
20
86.7%
Bulgarian
+
13.3%
West_Sicilian
@
2.9
</tbody>
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 08:05 PM
these 2 have ethnic Romanian names
M910861
NQ5772430
We're looking for kits specifically from Romania's Moldavia or Republic of Moldova.
Dobrescu is a Wallachian surname. The original is Dobre.
vbnetkhio
04-09-2020, 08:12 PM
We're looking for kits specifically from Romania's Moldavia or Republic of Moldova.
Dobrescu is a Wallachian surname. The original is Dobre.
it looks like they both exist in southwest part of R. of Moldova too
http://www.locatemyname.com/md/Constantin
http://www.locatemyname.com/md/Dobrescu
vbnetkhio
04-09-2020, 08:14 PM
--
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 08:18 PM
--
You need to look at everything. I add only those whom I can actually find as real persons for double-checking.
Here's the first (https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=Radu%20Constantin%20Adrian) guy for example, because I already had him in the Wallachia table.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 08:20 PM
I got back to work.
Person from Gagauzia. This is the first full Gagauz in our table.
https://nume.casata.md/index.php?l=ro&action=viewnume&id=19443
https://forebears.io/surnames/cuiujuclu
<tbody>
#
Population
Percent
1
Baltic
22.57
2
East_Med
21.59
3
North_Atlantic
20.35
4
West_Med
20.05
5
West_Asian
9.76
6
Red_Sea
1.78
7
Oceanian
1.17
8
Sub-Saharan
0.83
9
Amerindian
0.71
10
South_Asian
0.52
11
East_Asian
0.44
12
Siberian
0.24
</tbody>
Single Population Sharing:
<tbody>
#
Population (source)
Distance
1
Bulgarian
3.7
2
Romanian
5.99
3
Greek_Thessaly
7.23
4
Serbian
9.78
5
Tuscan
13.61
6
Central_Greek
14.33
7
Italian_Abruzzo
14.52
8
Moldavian
14.87
9
North_Italian
14.98
10
West_Sicilian
15.2
11
East_Sicilian
15.51
12
Ashkenazi
16.89
13
Croatian
17.77
14
Hungarian
17.9
15
South_Italian
18.5
16
Austrian
20.45
17
Portuguese
21.37
18
Spanish_Galicia
22.1
19
Spanish_Extremadura
22.23
20
East_German
22.26
</tbody>
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
<tbody>
#
Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance
1
92.7%
Bulgarian
+
7.3%
Sardinian
@
2.46
2
78.8%
Greek_Thessaly
+
21.2%
Ukrainian
@
2.53
3
72.4%
Greek_Thessaly
+
27.6%
Croatian
@
2.71
4
84.2%
Greek_Thessaly
+
15.8%
Lithuanian
@
2.72
5
82%
Greek_Thessaly
+
18%
Estonian_Polish
@
2.72
6
92.6%
Bulgarian
+
7.4%
Tunisian
@
2.75
7
90.4%
Bulgarian
+
9.6%
Algerian_Jewish
@
2.76
8
68.6%
Greek_Thessaly
+
31.4%
Moldavian
@
2.76
9
78.2%
Greek_Thessaly
+
21.8%
Ukrainian_Lviv
@
2.77
10
73.2%
Bulgarian
+
26.8%
Greek_Thessaly
@
2.78
11
93%
Bulgarian
+
7%
Mozabite_Berber
@
2.8
12
81%
Greek_Thessaly
+
19%
Polish
@
2.8
13
80.9%
Greek_Thessaly
+
19.1%
Southwest_Russian
@
2.83
14
92.9%
Bulgarian
+
7.1%
Algerian
@
2.83
15
82.5%
Greek_Thessaly
+
17.5%
Belorussian
@
2.84
16
78.9%
Greek_Thessaly
+
21.1%
South_Polish
@
2.85
17
93.3%
Bulgarian
+
6.7%
Moroccan
@
2.85
18
82%
Greek_Thessaly
+
18%
Russian_Smolensk
@
2.85
19
84.2%
Greek_Thessaly
+
15.8%
Estonian
@
2.87
20
86.7%
Bulgarian
+
13.3%
West_Sicilian
@
2.9
</tbody>
No wonder people in the South are so southern when such individuals live in that region.
This guy (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?318490-Moldovan-Romanian-GEDmatch-Resuts&p=6611847&viewfull=1#post6611847) for example for a moment I believed he is Gagauz, but he is Moldavian, plus one of his grandparents have local surname, the rest are foreign.
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 08:24 PM
No wonder people in the South are so southern when such individuals live in that region.
This guy (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?318490-Moldovan-Romanian-GEDmatch-Resuts&p=6611847&viewfull=1#post6611847) for example for a moment I believed he is Gagauz, but he is Moldavian, plus one of his grandparents have local surname, the rest are foreign.
Yeah, this Gagauz village is only 30km in a straight line or 50km by road from my maternal grandpa's village, so I wouldn't be surprised if people there were pretty similar to them autosomally.
Aspirin
04-09-2020, 08:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TytxpWMhcjU
Cicani :cool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7M3-4HKt8g
I'd guess like 35% North, 45% Centre and 20% South maybe.
I've decided to go ahead and calculate the percentages myself using data from Wikipedia.
As of 2011
Chisinau - 22.2%
Balti - 4.2%
North - 24.1%
Center - 29.8%
South with Gagauzia - 19.7%
(Gagauzia alone - 4.5%)
Ion Basescul
04-09-2020, 10:22 PM
This one comes with an essay. (https://www.scena9.ro/article/genealogie-familie-adn)
<tbody>
#
Population
Percent
1
Baltic
33.52
2
North_Atlantic
21.99
3
West_Med
14.77
4
East_Med
11.99
5
West_Asian
11.31
6
Red_Sea
2.49
7
Siberian
2.23
8
East_Asian
1.04
9
South_Asian
0.5
10
Oceanian
0.16
</tbody>
Single Population Sharing:
<tbody>
#
Population (source)
Distance
1
Moldavian
3.47
2
Croatian
6.74
3
Serbian
8.11
4
Romanian
10.13
5
Hungarian
10.31
6
Bulgarian
11.46
7
Ukrainian_Lviv
11.48
8
Ukrainian
12.88
9
South_Polish
13.11
10
Austrian
14.62
11
East_German
15.15
12
Southwest_Russian
15.41
13
Ukrainian_Belgorod
15.47
14
Polish
16.26
15
Russian_Smolensk
17.57
16
Tatar
18.03
17
Estonian_Polish
18.21
18
Belorussian
18.98
19
Kargopol_Russian
19
20
Erzya
19.81
</tbody>
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
<tbody>
#
Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance
1
95.1%
Moldavian
+
4.9%
Georgian_Jewish
@
2.57
2
95.2%
Moldavian
+
4.8%
Assyrian
@
2.63
3
95.5%
Moldavian
+
4.5%
Kurdish_Jewish
@
2.65
4
78.5%
Ukrainian_Lviv
+
21.5%
Cyprian
@
2.65
5
63.8%
Bulgarian
+
36.2%
Erzya
@
2.67
6
95.5%
Moldavian
+
4.5%
Iranian_Jewish
@
2.68
7
95.4%
Moldavian
+
4.6%
Armenian
@
2.7
8
94.4%
Moldavian
+
5.6%
Turkish
@
2.71
9
95.6%
Moldavian
+
4.4%
Lebanese_Christian
@
2.71
10
94.9%
Moldavian
+
5.1%
Azeri
@
2.73
11
95.9%
Moldavian
+
4.1%
Abhkasian
@
2.73
12
66.8%
Romanian
+
33.2%
Erzya
@
2.74
13
95.4%
Moldavian
+
4.6%
Iranian
@
2.74
14
95.4%
Moldavian
+
4.6%
Kurdish
@
2.75
15
94.4%
Moldavian
+
5.6%
Kumyk
@
2.75
16
95.7%
Moldavian
+
4.3%
Samaritan
@
2.75
17
94.6%
Moldavian
+
5.4%
Kabardin
@
2.76
18
95.7%
Moldavian
+
4.3%
Georgian
@
2.76
19
94.9%
Moldavian
+
5.1%
Adygei
@
2.76
20
94.9%
Moldavian
+
5.1%
Balkar
@
2.77
</tbody>
ixulescu
04-09-2020, 10:33 PM
Tara/teara Rumaneasca was informal as well, the official name was Ungrovlahia. There was no such thing as Tara Romaneasca. You can prove me wrong of course. A country must have countless documents with it's name.
Wallachia had several official names, all used at the same time, including Țeara Rumânească, Vlachia, Vallahia, Ungrovlahia, Transalpina. The official name in Romanian has always been Țara Rumânească, but it needs to be said that the replacement of OCS with Romanian in administration was a slow process, accelerated only by the arrival of the printing press, which allowed Romanian translation and printing of the Bible, and with it education in Romanian.
But it's clear that Țara Rumânească has been in use for a long time, since the very first document in written in Romanian (an official document btw) names Wallachia as Țeara Rumânească. Oldest Wallachian chronicles written in Romanian also use the term Țeara Rumânească.
This one comes with an essay. (https://www.scena9.ro/article/genealogie-familie-adn)
Where in Moldova are they from? I assume you also have a photo and know the haplogroups.
Please post their Dodecad K12b components, I personally use that one a lot.
WeirdLookingFellow
04-10-2020, 06:01 AM
Where in Moldova are they from? I assume you also have a photo and know the haplogroups.
Please post their Dodecad K12b components, I personally use that one a lot.
The article explains that they are from Northern Bukovina, which is now Ukraine, Bukovina. It was historically part of northern Moldova but it was absorbed by the Austro-Hungarian empire. The area was inhabited by mostly Ukrainians and Romanians, but I've seen some ethnic maps from the late 19th century and the delimitation in terms of majority was visible, although they did mix. Poles were also present but not that much.
The article explains that they are from Northern Bukovina, which is now Ukraine, Bukovina. It was historically part of northern Moldova but it was absorbed by the Austro-Hungarian empire. The area was inhabited by mostly Ukrainians and Romanians, but I've seen some ethnic maps from the late 19th century and the delimitation in terms of majority was visible, although they did mix. Poles were also present but not that much.
Makes sense given the relatively high Baltic score (33%). Also the mongoloid input is notable (2.23 + 1.04%).
Ion Basescul
04-10-2020, 08:32 AM
Where in Moldova are they from? I assume you also have a photo and know the haplogroups.
Please post their Dodecad K12b components, I personally use that one a lot.
The photo is at the end of the article. It's the author
I'll post those later.
The photo is at the end of the article. It's the author
I'll post those later.
This one, I guess
https://www.scena9.ro/assets/images/writers/278/cutas.jpeg
Aspirin
04-10-2020, 11:35 AM
This one comes with an essay. (https://www.scena9.ro/article/genealogie-familie-adn)
<tbody>
#
Population
Percent
1
Baltic
33.52
2
North_Atlantic
21.99
3
West_Med
14.77
4
East_Med
11.99
5
West_Asian
11.31
6
Red_Sea
2.49
7
Siberian
2.23
8
East_Asian
1.04
9
South_Asian
0.5
10
Oceanian
0.16
</tbody>
Single Population Sharing:
<tbody>
#
Population (source)
Distance
1
Moldavian
3.47
2
Croatian
6.74
3
Serbian
8.11
4
Romanian
10.13
5
Hungarian
10.31
6
Bulgarian
11.46
7
Ukrainian_Lviv
11.48
8
Ukrainian
12.88
9
South_Polish
13.11
10
Austrian
14.62
11
East_German
15.15
12
Southwest_Russian
15.41
13
Ukrainian_Belgorod
15.47
14
Polish
16.26
15
Russian_Smolensk
17.57
16
Tatar
18.03
17
Estonian_Polish
18.21
18
Belorussian
18.98
19
Kargopol_Russian
19
20
Erzya
19.81
</tbody>
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
<tbody>
#
Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance
1
95.1%
Moldavian
+
4.9%
Georgian_Jewish
@
2.57
2
95.2%
Moldavian
+
4.8%
Assyrian
@
2.63
3
95.5%
Moldavian
+
4.5%
Kurdish_Jewish
@
2.65
4
78.5%
Ukrainian_Lviv
+
21.5%
Cyprian
@
2.65
5
63.8%
Bulgarian
+
36.2%
Erzya
@
2.67
6
95.5%
Moldavian
+
4.5%
Iranian_Jewish
@
2.68
7
95.4%
Moldavian
+
4.6%
Armenian
@
2.7
8
94.4%
Moldavian
+
5.6%
Turkish
@
2.71
9
95.6%
Moldavian
+
4.4%
Lebanese_Christian
@
2.71
10
94.9%
Moldavian
+
5.1%
Azeri
@
2.73
11
95.9%
Moldavian
+
4.1%
Abhkasian
@
2.73
12
66.8%
Romanian
+
33.2%
Erzya
@
2.74
13
95.4%
Moldavian
+
4.6%
Iranian
@
2.74
14
95.4%
Moldavian
+
4.6%
Kurdish
@
2.75
15
94.4%
Moldavian
+
5.6%
Kumyk
@
2.75
16
95.7%
Moldavian
+
4.3%
Samaritan
@
2.75
17
94.6%
Moldavian
+
5.4%
Kabardin
@
2.76
18
95.7%
Moldavian
+
4.3%
Georgian
@
2.76
19
94.9%
Moldavian
+
5.1%
Adygei
@
2.76
20
94.9%
Moldavian
+
5.1%
Balkar
@
2.77
</tbody>
Give me her kit number.
MoroLP
04-10-2020, 12:37 PM
Greetings I'm interested in the Romanian_Botosani. It is based on how many samples? What can you tell about it, I see many samples from ex-Yugoslavia are close to it, is it because is more Slavic shifted than other Romanian samples?
Mik20
04-10-2020, 01:09 PM
Wallachia had several official names, all used at the same time, including Țeara Rumânească, Vlachia, Vallahia, Ungrovlahia, Transalpina. The official name in Romanian has always been Țara Rumânească, but it needs to be said that the replacement of OCS with Romanian in administration was a slow process, accelerated only by the arrival of the printing press, which allowed Romanian translation and printing of the Bible, and with it education in Romanian.
But it's clear that Țara Rumânească has been in use for a long time, since the very first document in written in Romanian (an official document btw) names Wallachia as Țeara Rumânească. Oldest Wallachian chronicles written in Romanian also use the term Țeara Rumânească.
So no Tara Romaneasca as you insisted, but Tara Rumaneasca. There is a massive difference between ruman and the roman. Roman being a fabricated ethnonym that entered popular use in the second half of the 19 century. You would be shocked travelling in time and realizing what being ruman meant. Calling yourself ruman meant asking to be whipped and put to work in the fields.
Yeah, they had no idea how to call their country. It was Tara Rumaneasca or Tara Munteneasca - Muntenia or Tara Basarabeasca - Basarabia or Ungrovlahia or Valahia or Transalpina and several other names. Moldova on the other hand was Moldova and still is despite the efforts of Romanians to erase its name.
Aspirin
04-10-2020, 04:10 PM
Eurogenes K15 map of Romanian Moldova (unmixed).
Green- Suceava county (Bukovina).
Light green - for people who plot very close to each other, to not confound them. Same for grey color.
Black - the rest of Moldova region.
Violet - Gypsy admixed.
https://sun9-9.userapi.com/x_vXHzpQYN3NUeNvtOpxnj2ZwuFFkkVQhFssDA/7p2X_Jut2uU.jpg
Ion Basescul
04-10-2020, 04:39 PM
Greetings I'm interested in the Romanian_Botosani. It is based on how many samples? What can you tell about it, I see many samples from ex-Yugoslavia are close to it, is it because is more Slavic shifted than other Romanian samples?
I think that's just one sample. Nurzat could tell you more.
But since the time that Romanian_Botosani was released for public testing, we have gathered more samples from that county and region.
Aspirin
04-10-2020, 04:50 PM
This match of my mother is most likely Moldovan. It's unmixed East Romance speaker (Radu is his name), but with very weird and almost nonexistant surname.
It exists only on 3 locations in northern part of Romanian Moldova.
https://www.hartanumeromanesti.eu/en/index.php?sur=chichi&s=Search
1 Baltic 31.36
2 North_Atlantic 22.58
3 East_Med 16.01
4 West_Med 14.37
5 West_Asian 10.9
6 Red_Sea 2.56
7 Siberian 1.23
8 Amerindian 0.53
9 Northeast_African 0.27
10 Oceanian 0.19
Single Population Sharing:
1 Serbian 5.73
2 Moldavian 5.78
3 Romanian 7.01
4 Bulgarian 8.19
5 Croatian 8.64
6 Hungarian 10.5
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 14.32
8 Austrian 14.82
9 South_Polish 15.39
10 Ukrainian 15.6
11 East_German 15.91
12 Greek_Thessaly 16.95
13 Southwest_Russian 17.98
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 18.16
15 Polish 18.73
16 Russian_Smolensk 20.22
17 Tatar 20.59
18 Estonian_Polish 20.74
19 West_German 20.92
20 Belorussian 21.33
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
1 56.9% Southwest_Russian + 43.1% Central_Greek @ 1.08
2 61.1% Southwest_Russian + 38.9% South_Italian @ 1.35
3 60.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 39.2% South_Italian @ 1.45
4 69% Bulgarian + 31% Southwest_Russian @ 1.48
5 51.7% Greek_Thessaly + 48.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.5
6 52.1% Central_Greek + 47.9% Lithuanian @ 1.5
7 56.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 43.4% Central_Greek @ 1.53
8 69.2% Bulgarian + 30.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.54
9 54% Russian_Smolensk + 46% Central_Greek @ 1.6
10 70.9% Ukrainian + 29.1% Cyprian @ 1.68
11 58.1% Southwest_Russian + 41.9% East_Sicilian @ 1.7
12 71.2% South_Polish + 28.8% Cyprian @ 1.71
13 57.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 42.1% East_Sicilian @ 1.73
14 51.5% Greek_Thessaly + 48.5% Southwest_Russian @ 1.76
15 53.3% Estonian_Polish + 46.7% Central_Greek @ 1.79
16 67% Polish + 33% Cyprian @ 1.85
17 71.6% Bulgarian + 28.4% Russian_Smolensk @ 1.88
18 76.4% Bulgarian + 23.6% Lithuanian @ 1.93
19 74.2% Bulgarian + 25.8% Erzya @ 1.96
20 52.7% Belorussian + 47.3% Central_Greek @ 1.97
These results look rather Moldovan than Wallachian or Transylvanian to me. Your opinion?
Can you give me his kit number?
Bosniensis
04-10-2020, 04:53 PM
I still love how Romanians score 1. Bosniensis on their results page.
Whole Romania has DNA like Bosniensis
MoroLP
04-10-2020, 05:39 PM
I think that's just one sample. Nurzat could tell you more.
But since the time that Romanian_Botosani was released for public testing, we have gathered more samples from that county and region.
These new samples should be part of the Romania_Moldova_North/South/average targets?
Cumansky
04-10-2020, 05:43 PM
Greetings I'm interested in the Romanian_Botosani. It is based on how many samples? What can you tell about it, I see many samples from ex-Yugoslavia are close to it, is it because is more Slavic shifted than other Romanian samples?
Probably not the reason why they are close with Yugoslavian samples
Thank you for downvotes, I love all my fans!
Can you give me his kit number?
Yes.
This one, I guess
https://www.scena9.ro/assets/images/writers/278/cutas.jpeg
She is subnordid type, passes from east-central Europe all the way to France and Belgium.
Reminds me of Belgian woman I saw somewhere.
Ion Basescul
04-10-2020, 06:15 PM
Where in Moldova are they from? I assume you also have a photo and know the haplogroups.
Please post their Dodecad K12b components, I personally use that one a lot.
<tbody>
Gedrosia
5.38 Pct
Siberian
1.52 Pct
Northwest_African
0.11 Pct
Southeast_Asian
0.98 Pct
Atlantic_Med
24.41 Pct
North_European
39.92 Pct
South_Asian
-
East_African
-
Southwest_Asian
5.18 Pct
East_Asian
1.00 Pct
Caucasus
21.50 Pct
Sub_Saharan
-
</tbody>
Ion Basescul
04-10-2020, 06:17 PM
These new samples should be part of the Romania_Moldova_North/South/average targets?
Yes, Romania_Moldavia_North includes the counties of Botosani, Suceava, Iasi and Neamt.
She is subnordid type, passes from east-central Europe all the way to France and Belgium.
Reminds me of Belgian woman I saw somewhere.
Yeah, a very "generic" European woman.
MoroLP
04-10-2020, 06:36 PM
Probably not the reason why they are close with Yugoslavian samples
It is clearly related to Slavic influence.
Target
Distance
Early_Slavic
Paleo-Balkan
Celto-Germanic
Romanian_Oltenia
20.80872007
•
26.6
41.6
31.8
Romanian_Muntenia
6.25150294
•
39.4
60.6
0.0
Romanian_Wallachia_average
5.16934099
•
40.8
59.2
0.0
Romanian_Transylvania
3.99351012
•
43.6
54.2
2.2
Romania_Moldavia_average
4.41312612
•
48.6
51.0
0.4
Romania_Moldavia_North
5.47147665
•
51.2
48.8
0.0
Romania_Moldavia_South
3.46293368
•
45.2
52.8
2.0
Romanian_Botosani
4.99569033
•
62.8
37.2
0.0
Romanian_Oltenia
5.36833037
•
37.6
57.0
5.4
Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
4.83004795
•
48.6
51.4
0.0
Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
4.45633980
•
58.2
39.0
2.8
Romanian_Muntenia
4.55229505
•
38.2
61.8
0.0
Romanian_Transylvania
4.18880475
•
40.2
53.4
6.4
Romanian_Average
4.21909393
•
49.4
50.6
0.0
Average
5.87008662
•
45.0
51.3
3.6
Out of these Romanian samples my father's Croat sample is closest to those which are more Slavic, also his ratio is 63% Slavic and 37% Paleo-Balkan, like Botosani:
4.38525940 Romanian_Botosani
6.92769803 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
8.41460635 Romania_Moldavia_North
Aspirin
04-10-2020, 06:37 PM
Interesting are these results from Romanian Moldova, and they kinda prove my old theory about this region. Many don't see, but here exist two distinctive genetic clusters. To understand more, you need to put this map in this position.
https://sun9-55.userapi.com/SXpKm2VAyx9EmmIGfm2tMO8R5wsByMsJr15rgw/OGs3VyQXsjg.jpg
<tbody>
Gedrosia
5.38 Pct
Siberian
1.52 Pct
Northwest_African
0.11 Pct
Southeast_Asian
0.98 Pct
Atlantic_Med
24.41 Pct
North_European
39.92 Pct
South_Asian
-
East_African
-
Southwest_Asian
5.18 Pct
East_Asian
1.00 Pct
Caucasus
21.50 Pct
Sub_Saharan
-
</tbody>
Thanks. I wonder if that's actually Golden Horde era input. She's exactly 3.5% East Eurasian on Dodecad.
Siberian 1.52 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.98 Pct
East_Asian 1.00 Pct
I remember what you wrote about your minor EE back in the day (Orhei burial or something like that).
Cumansky
04-10-2020, 06:45 PM
It is clearly related to Slavic influence.
Target
Distance
Early_Slavic
Paleo-Balkan
Celto-Germanic
Romanian_Oltenia
20.80872007
•
26.6
41.6
31.8
Romanian_Muntenia
6.25150294
•
39.4
60.6
0.0
Romanian_Wallachia_average
5.16934099
•
40.8
59.2
0.0
Romanian_Transylvania
3.99351012
•
43.6
54.2
2.2
Romania_Moldavia_average
4.41312612
•
48.6
51.0
0.4
Romania_Moldavia_North
5.47147665
•
51.2
48.8
0.0
Romania_Moldavia_South
3.46293368
•
45.2
52.8
2.0
Romanian_Botosani
4.99569033
•
62.8
37.2
0.0
Romanian_Oltenia
5.36833037
•
37.6
57.0
5.4
Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
4.83004795
•
48.6
51.4
0.0
Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
4.45633980
•
58.2
39.0
2.8
Romanian_Muntenia
4.55229505
•
38.2
61.8
0.0
Romanian_Transylvania
4.18880475
•
40.2
53.4
6.4
Romanian_Average
4.21909393
•
49.4
50.6
0.0
Average
5.87008662
•
45.0
51.3
3.6
Out of these Romanian samples my father's Croat sample is closest to those which are more Slavic, also his ratio is 63% Slavic and 37% Paleo-Balkan, like Botosani:
4.38525940 Romanian_Botosani
6.92769803 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
8.41460635 Romania_Moldavia_North
Romanians aren't very Baltoslavic. Their northern part is very Celto Germanic!
MoroLP
04-10-2020, 06:55 PM
Romanians aren't very Baltoslavic. Their northern part is very Celto Germanic!
We are not speaking of Balts and the Celtic Germanic percentage is practically zero among Romanians. Ignore.
Cumansky
04-10-2020, 06:59 PM
We are not speaking of Balts and the Celtic Germanic percentage is practically zero among Romanians. Ignore.
Then you are confused. You think there is no link between Baltic and Slavic people. Go eat some Burek cheese pie for dinner and then email Davidski for Global 25 coordinates. OTTOMAN WARS CALC will be waiting for you when you feel like getting exposed!
Ion Basescul
04-10-2020, 07:00 PM
I remember what you wrote about your minor EE back in the day (Orhei burial or something like that).
Yes, it's here (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?317102-Post-the-list-of-surnames-of-people-from-your-grandparents-places-of-birth&p=6612659&viewfull=1#post6612659), but her ancestors were located quite far from here.
Hers could be an older Cuman/Pecheneg/Tatar signal, since all these regions East of the Carpathian Arch were heavily raided and by Cumans also settled prior to the 13th century.
This is the reason why the Principality of Moldavia was created in the first place, to prevent the raiders from reaching Hungary.
I also get 3.5% East Asian-like ancestry as she does.
<tbody>
Gedrosia
5.71 Pct
Siberian
1.53 Pct
Northwest_African
0.24 Pct
Southeast_Asian
-
Atlantic_Med
25.42 Pct
North_European
40.30 Pct
South_Asian
0.11 Pct
East_African
-
Southwest_Asian
4.33 Pct
East_Asian
2.00 Pct
Caucasus
20.36 Pct
Sub_Saharan
-
</tbody>
Ion Basescul
04-10-2020, 07:03 PM
Interesting are these results from Romanian Moldova, and they kinda prove my old theory about this region. Many don't see, but here exist two distinctive genetic clusters. To understand more, you need to put this map in this position.
https://sun9-55.userapi.com/SXpKm2VAyx9EmmIGfm2tMO8R5wsByMsJr15rgw/OGs3VyQXsjg.jpg
Can you explain your theory?
Aspirin
04-10-2020, 07:04 PM
Yes.
Thanks.
We are not speaking of Balts and the Celtic Germanic percentage is practically zero among Romanians. Ignore.
Ignore Cumansky, he (like another user Bosniensis) is our local clown here.
Yes, it's here (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?317102-Post-the-list-of-surnames-of-people-from-your-grandparents-places-of-birth&p=6612659&viewfull=1#post6612659), but her ancestors were located quite far from here.
Hers could be an older Cuman/Pecheneg/Tatar signal, since all these regions East of the Carpathian Arch were heavily raided and by Cumans also settled prior to the 13th century.
This is the reason why the Principality of Moldavia was created in the first place, to prevent the raiders from reaching Hungary.
I also get 3.5% East Asian-like ancestry as she does.
<tbody>
Gedrosia
5.71 Pct
Siberian
1.53 Pct
Northwest_African
0.24 Pct
Southeast_Asian
-
Atlantic_Med
25.42 Pct
North_European
40.30 Pct
South_Asian
0.11 Pct
East_African
-
Southwest_Asian
4.33 Pct
East_Asian
2.00 Pct
Caucasus
20.36 Pct
Sub_Saharan
-
</tbody>
You are very similar to her on Dodecad.
Cumansky
04-10-2020, 07:24 PM
Ignore Cumansky, he (like another user Bosniensis) is our local clown here.
You mean local Pashas! Circus is you and your family
Aspirin
04-10-2020, 07:39 PM
My conclusion based on all these result, the most southern individuals are from Galați, but not all from here are like that. But the most interesting thing is, if then you go northern, because in all counties who are close to Carpathins people are visible southern, and this influence go northern to Suceava county. Is different story with eastern counties (Botoșani, Iași, Vaslui) who are close to Republic, people here are visible northern, some individuals very much. These ones from Galați clearly are conected with strong Greek presence in that area, Greeks in the past were in many places in all the corners of the country, but most of them were in that region.
In Republic is totally different, here is a slow gradation from North to the South. But southern of the capital people start to have very different results because of presence of minorities of Balkan origin in that area, some people in that area are very southern. In Central and Northern areas people are visible homogenous, except some outliers.
You mean local Pashas! Circus is you and your family
:thumb001:
My conclusion based on all these result, the most southern individuals are from Galați, but not all from here are like that. But the most interesting thing is, if then you go northern, because in all counties who are close to Carpathins people are visible southern, and this influence go northern to Suceava county. Is different story with eastern counties (Botoșani, Iași, Vaslui) who are close to Republic, people here are visible northern, some individuals very much. These ones from Galați clearly are conected with strong Greek presence in that area, Greeks in the past were in many places in all the corners of the country, but most of them were in that region.
In Republic is totally different, here is a slow gradation from North to the South. But southern of the capital people start to have very different results because of presence of minorities of Balkan origin in that area, some people in that area are very southern. In Central and Northern areas people are visible homogenous, except some outliers.
Stronger Vlach influence in areas close to Carpathians?
In Republic is totally different, here is a slow gradation from North to the South. But southern of the capital people start to have very different results because of presence of minorities of Balkan origin in that area, some people in that area are very southern. In Central and Northern areas people are visible homogenous, except some outliers.
North of Chisinau 30% Baltic would probably be the norm.
Aspirin
04-10-2020, 08:12 PM
Stronger Vlach influence is areas close to Carpathians?
Yes, I believe this is the reason, is bassically my old theory, what people close to Carpathians are more Balkanic genetically. Interesting is that the most northern individual on the map is from Bacău, and he is very different from all his relatives who are close to that Romanian average. Second one who is very northern is from Vaslui. In Galați is cleary seen Greek influence, this is not Vlach, in the past here came many many Greeks, and they settled everywhere, not only in the south. For example exists two individuals from Botoșani on the map, who are visible souhern for their region, and will not surprise me if they have some Greek ancestry, or even Jewish.
Aspirin
04-10-2020, 08:16 PM
North of Chisinau 30% Baltic would probably be the norm.
Yes, I didn't put on the map individuals of known mixed origins, or these ones who score 37% Baltic. By the way in the south is not rarity to see so high Baltic, but the component who make people more southern are East Med, West Med and West Asian, because some individuals who score only 25% Baltic, can be more northern than these ones who score 30%.
Yes, I didn't put on the map individuals of known mixed origins, or these ones who score 37% Baltic. By the way in the south is not rarity to see so high Baltic, but the component who make people more southern are East Med, West Med and West Asian, because some individuals who score only 25% Baltic, can be more northern than these ones who score 30%.
That's why I also use Dodecad. It has more basic components like North_European (peaks in the Baltics) and Atlantic_Med (peaks in the Basques, I believe).
Coastal Elite
04-10-2020, 08:35 PM
Stronger Vlach influence in areas close to Carpathians?
I think as a general rule, swarthy people live near mountain ranges
Aspirin
04-10-2020, 08:57 PM
Can you explain your theory?
People close to mountain area are more close to old Vlach populations. Southern cluster is mostly composed from counties close to Carpathians, only Suceva is differnet, since exist and more norhern indiviuals. But need more samples, especially from Neamț county too, to see more formed image of the region. For Galați exist other explanation.
Northern cluster is mostly composed from individuals from Vaslui, Iaşi, Botoşani, partialy Suceava, plus one person from Bacău and one from Galaţi (not IncelSlayer).
https://sun9-52.userapi.com/KYEwD51y7ltzmMaWcztdpWoR_zrfg6mBnY11ug/W989CFjjVqA.jpg
Ion Basescul
04-10-2020, 09:04 PM
Yes, I didn't put on the map individuals of known mixed origins, or these ones who score 37% Baltic. By the way in the south is not rarity to see so high Baltic, but the component who make people more southern are East Med, West Med and West Asian, because some individuals who score only 25% Baltic, can be more northern than these ones who score 30%.
You gave me an idea to look at the results regionally.
NE + NW Europe = Baltic + North Atlantic (Baltic peaks in Lithuanians at 54%, Atlantic in West Scottish at 53%)
East + West Med (In Europe, East Med peaks in South Italians at 30% and Cypriots at 41%; West Med peaks in Sardinians at 52%)
NW Asia/Caucasus = West Asian (peaks in Abkhasians at 54%)
SW Asia/Arabia = Red Sea (peaks in Saudis at 34%)
East Asia/Siberia = East Asian + Siberian + Amerindian
India (self-explanatory)
Ion Basescul
04-10-2020, 09:06 PM
You gave me an idea to look at the results regionally.
NE + NW Europe = Baltic + North Atlantic (Baltic peaks in Lithuanians at 54%, Atlantic in West Scottish at 53%)
East + West Med (In Europe, East Med peaks in South Italians at 30% and Cypriots at 41%; West Med peaks in Sardinians at 52%)
NW Asia/Caucasus = West Asian (peaks in Abkhasians at 54%)
SW Asia/Arabia = Red Sea (peaks in Saudis at 34%)
East Asia/Siberia = East Asian + Siberian + Amerindian
India (self-explanatory)
1) NE + NW Europe
https://i.imgur.com/zVuFx6K.png
Dumitrescu is not a Moldovan surname? If not, I won't post the results.
Aspirin
04-10-2020, 09:31 PM
Dumitrescu is not a Moldovan surname? If not, I won't post the results.
No, in RM don't exist, in Romanian Moldova is uncommon, but exist. Is a Wallachian surname, and is very common only in South Romania.
https://www.hartanumeromanesti.eu/en/index.php?sur=dumitrescu&s=Search
Vast majority of surnames with -escu are mostly Wallachian, and are uncommon in Moldavian region and RM.
Ion Basescul
04-10-2020, 09:33 PM
Dumitrescu is not a Moldovan surname? If not, I won't post the results.
No, we have two Dumitrescus in the Wallachian thread.
Ion Basescul
04-10-2020, 09:36 PM
You gave me an idea to look at the results regionally.
NE + NW Europe = Baltic + North Atlantic (Baltic peaks in Lithuanians at 54%, Atlantic in West Scottish at 53%)
East + West Med (In Europe, East Med peaks in South Italians at 30% and Cypriots at 41%; West Med peaks in Sardinians at 52%)
NW Asia/Caucasus = West Asian (peaks in Abkhasians at 54%)
SW Asia/Arabia = Red Sea (peaks in Saudis at 34%)
East Asia/Siberia = East Asian + Siberian + Amerindian
India (self-explanatory)
2) East + West Med
https://i.imgur.com/3uoaaet.png?1
Ion Basescul
04-10-2020, 09:36 PM
You gave me an idea to look at the results regionally.
NE + NW Europe = Baltic + North Atlantic (Baltic peaks in Lithuanians at 54%, Atlantic in West Scottish at 53%)
East + West Med (In Europe, East Med peaks in South Italians at 30% and Cypriots at 41%; West Med peaks in Sardinians at 52%)
NW Asia/Caucasus = West Asian (peaks in Abkhasians at 54%)
SW Asia/Arabia = Red Sea (peaks in Saudis at 34%)
East Asia/Siberia = East Asian + Siberian + Amerindian
India (self-explanatory)
3) NW Asia/Caucasus
https://i.imgur.com/Ykopl2q.png?1
Ion Basescul
04-10-2020, 09:37 PM
You gave me an idea to look at the results regionally.
NE + NW Europe = Baltic + North Atlantic (Baltic peaks in Lithuanians at 54%, Atlantic in West Scottish at 53%)
East + West Med (In Europe, East Med peaks in South Italians at 30% and Cypriots at 41%; West Med peaks in Sardinians at 52%)
NW Asia/Caucasus = West Asian (peaks in Abkhasians at 54%)
SW Asia/Arabia = Red Sea (peaks in Saudis at 34%)
East Asia/Siberia = East Asian + Siberian + Amerindian
India (self-explanatory)
4) SW Asia/Arabia
https://i.imgur.com/sFQaAsI.png?1
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