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Does anybody have any Azov Greek k12b results? They are supposed to be the descendants of Pontic Greeks that have settled in Crimea in 12th century. From what I've seen their Y-DNA results look Caucasus, I wonder how they score.
https://i.hizliresim.com/eQcVQH.png
Greek settled in Crimea atleast 2000 years ago. The Locals might have carried such Y-DNA in CrimeaQuote:
Originally Posted by RatCat
Thank you, seems interesting and very Northern Caucasian along with some Tatar element :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyp
yes I noticed that too and combined with Avar component they give the most accurate results, I think :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
in my research it is most probably due to the Avar dissemination in Europe and I have high matches in Catalonia and Basque too. If you remember my Slavic components are high as well, no wonder
I dont know, on MDLP they can be modelled as Half Pontic GreekQuote:
Originally Posted by Fedora
Target: Azov_Greek
Distance: 1.0281% / 1.02811791 | R3P
50.6 Greek_Trabzon
41.7 Bulgarian
7.7 Nogai
Target: Azov_Greek
Distance: 0.8559% / 0.85586885 | R3P
46.7 Greek_Trabzon
34.1 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain
19.2 Croat
I don't think the Avars were ever present in Europe or outside the North Caucasus. And that's not really Slavic either. Dagestan is the most European HG part of the Caucasus, I think that's because of the close proximity to the Eurasian Steppe which is just north of the Caspian Sea. On the other hand, the Northwestern Caucasus has a stronger Anatolian/Black Sea affinity but also stronger Turkic influence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buusra
I don't think the Avars were ever present in Europe or outside the North Caucasus. And that's not really Slavic either. Dagestan is the most European HG part of the Caucasus, I think that's because of the close proximity to the Eurasian Steppe which is just north of the Caspian Sea. On the other hand, the Northwestern Caucasus has a stronger Anatolian/Black Sea affinity but also stronger Turkic influence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buusra
https://geocurrents.info/wp-content/...itical_Map.jpg
Kalmykia and Astrakhan were part of the Indo-European/Yamnaya sphere.
As far i know they speak a Pontic dialect, so there must be a relation between both groups. I don’t think that ancient Greek settlers did successfully left genetic traces there, its more Byzantine/Trebizond heritage. These results perfectly reflect the history of Crimea and Azov Greeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by RatCat
Highly unusual result from North-West Azerbaijan. The person is of Ayrum ancestry.
This man's closest match is Azerbaijanis of Turkey, but even they are rather distant at 5.4.
https://i.imgur.com/nR566pU.png
https://i.imgur.com/QPW4Ngq.png
I am not sure but i think we are descendants of Aqqoyunlu and Qaraqoyunlu Turkmens like our Azerbaijan Turk and Iranian Turk(Turkmen, Iranian Azerbaijan) brothersQuote:
Originally Posted by Gecko
Just we migrated to western central anatolia later.
Very interesting result.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterling Archer
Low SNP kit. But I think with higher SNP it still would be rather atypical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterling Archer
Can't figure out why such a low Gedrosia together with high(for Azerbaijanis) Caucasus. Any idea?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterling Archer
It looks like the person is a straight mix of Turkmen+ native northeast anatolian to me. I don't know much about the settlement history of Yerevan Azeris though.
Could also have some ancestry which he isn't aware of.
Azeris from Absheron Peninsula:
Code:Absheron01,24.55,0.43,0.00,1.30,8.88,10.95,4.02,0.68,9.45,0.00,39.73,0.01
Absheron02,24.27,0.00,0.30,0.00,2.69,13.02,4.29,1.99,14.86,0.00,38.23,0.35
Absheron03,25.70,0.82,0.00,0.00,7.50,9.17,4.95,1.11,12.06,0.12,38.08,0.48
Is there any information about these people's background?Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterski
Only the first one seems to be Azerbaijani, even his results are strange.
Distance to: Absheron01
5.44830249 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
6.21235865 Talysh_Azerbaijan
6.30157917 Azerbaijani_Iran
6.45258863 Kurd_Kurmanji
6.64939847 Zaza
6.77451843 Kurd_Adygea
6.81865089 Azerbaijani
7.00015714 Azerbaijani_Turkey
7.02066236 Yazidi
8.14816544 Iranian
8.43450058 Kurd_Sorani
8.69783881 Udi_Azerbaijan
9.68836932 Lur_Iran
9.79608085 Iranian_Fars
Absheron03 is almost certainly Kurd.
Absheron02's results are strange. Very low to no east Asia. Although high North Euro is similar to Azerbaijanis than Kurds, but due to absence of EA we get very distant results:
Distance to: Absheron02
8.41966745 Kurd_Sorani
8.82977916 Talysh_Azerbaijan
8.92191123 Kurd_Adygea
9.03586188 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
9.10379591 Kurd_Kurmanji
9.19872817 Iranian_Fars
9.34484350 Yazidi
9.40912855 Azerbaijani_Iran
9.76616097 Zaza
9.87385436 Iraq_Turkmen
9.89376571 Iranian
9.99694953 Azerbaijani
10.56926204 Lur_Iran
Distance to: Absheron03
4.46024663 Yazidi
4.78679433 Kurd_Kurmanji
4.91692994 Kurd_Adygea
5.16392293 Talysh_Azerbaijan
5.45497021 Kurd_Sorani
5.79039722 Iranian
5.90320252 Azerbaijani_Iran
5.93121404 Iranian_Fars
6.03640622 Zaza
6.50690403 Lur_Iran
6.93416902 Azerbaijani
As a follow up:
Target: Absheron02
Distance: 1.9326% / 1.93263206
27.5 Kubachi_Dagestan
22.5 Iran_Mazandaran
18.4 Kuwait2
15.5 Georgian_Svan
11.3 Nuristani
3.8 Georgian_Gurian
0.9 Sandawe_He
0.1 Somali
Distance to: Absheron02
4.85300618 49.20% Iran_Arab + 50.80% Lezgin
4.89735378 56.40% Iran_Arab + 43.60% Kubachi_Dagestan
5.11009531 54.40% Iran_Arab + 45.60% Lak
5.25571642 72.60% Kurd_Sorani + 27.40% Tabasaran
5.31275103 25.80% Kaitag_Dagestan + 74.20% Kurd_Sorani
5.33109740 44.40% Avar + 55.60% Iran_Arab
5.39504428 26.60% Avar + 73.40% Kurd_Sorani
5.47317863 72.60% Kurd_Sorani + 27.40% Lak
5.50657682 55.00% Iran_Arab + 45.00% Tabasaran
5.54643807 25.60% Kubachi_Dagestan + 74.40% Kurd_Sorani
5.54873545 68.40% Kurd_Sorani + 31.60% Lezgin
5.65459706 41.40% Dargin + 58.60% Iran_Arab
5.65760731 23.80% Dargin + 76.20% Kurd_Sorani
5.72933270 56.80% Iran_Arab + 43.20% Kaitag_Dagestan
5.73699069 43.80% Iraqi_Arab + 56.20% Lezgin
Seems to be a mix between Dagestani (probably not Dagestani Azeri) and Iranian.
His surname is Dağıstanlı which means Dagestanian. But he is distant to everyone, very low Gedrosia and high Caucasus.
Population
Gedrosia 14.25 Pct
Siberian 2.74 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 2.06 Pct
Atlantic_Med 5.7 Pct
North_European 15.93 Pct
South_Asian 0.96 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 4.7 Pct
East_Asian 1.62 Pct
Caucasus 52.02 Pct
Sub_Saharan -
Distance to: dagistanli
6.34591207 Ossetian_South
6.51265691 Ossetian
7.14527816 Adyghe
7.72047926 Abkhazian
8.58054777 Circassian
8.72985109 Karachay
9.43144210 Abazin
9.67221795 Georgian
9.71771578 Balkar
10.51455658 Georgian_Gurian
10.82475866 Georgian_Svan
11.18987042 Turk_Ahiska
11.46853522 Kabardin
11.49927824 Ingush
12.51228996 Georgian_Mingrelian
12.81688340 Georgian_Imereti
13.54002216 Chechen
13.86327883 Tsakhur_Azerbaijan
13.95471247 Kumyk
14.12244313 Turk_East_Black_Sea
14.43588238 Turk_East
14.65760212 Laz
14.72997624 Georgian_Turkey
14.81268375 Udi_Azerbaijan
14.97907207 Hemshin
Target: dagistanli
Distance: 2.8070% / 2.80697772 | ADC: 0.25x RC
71.1 Georgian_Gurian
16.9 Nogai
10.4 Pomak_Greece
1.6 Cambodians
Target: dagistanli
Distance: 4.4735% / 4.47347632 | ADC: 0.5x RC
46.0 Ossetian
44.4 Abkhazian
9.6 Greek_Icaria
His match
Population
Gedrosia 14.69 Pct
Siberian 2.87 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 4.55 Pct
North_European 15.65 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 5.14 Pct
East_Asian 3.28 Pct
Caucasus 53.83 Pct
Sub_Saharan -
Distance to: hikmet
6.34380800 Ossetian_South
6.69307851 Abkhazian
7.54034482 Ossetian
8.42697455 Adyghe
9.06994487 Georgian
9.22352427 Georgian_Gurian
9.28184788 Georgian_Svan
9.84052336 Circassian
10.05399423 Karachay
10.97140374 Balkar
10.99757701 Georgian_Mingrelian
11.02689893 Turk_Ahiska
11.06049728 Abazin
11.60827291 Georgian_Imereti
12.67970426 Ingush
13.26154591 Kabardin
13.73385234 Georgian_Turkey
14.00695185 Turk_East_Black_Sea
14.13924326 Laz
14.55223351 Hemshin
14.68902311 Georgian_Adjara
14.80306387 Chechen
14.95532012 Tsakhur_Azerbaijan
15.37495366 Turk_East
15.38100452 Kumyk
Target: hikmet
Distance: 2.4918% / 2.49183447
85.5 Georgian_Mingrelian
10.0 Latvian
2.4 Nivh
2.1 Negidal
Target: hikmet
Distance: 3.0515% / 3.05153975 | ADC: 0.25x RC
75.8 Georgian_Gurian
21.0 Nogai
3.2 Lithuanian
Maybe tatar grandparent(1/4) + Georgian/Abkaz(3/4)? Maybe even (eastern) Russian grandparent.Quote:
Originally Posted by RatCat
In any case, his Caucasus is too high for Dagestan. People rarely score Caucasus higher that 40 over there.
Distance to: Dagestani
3.21674092 81.60% Georgian_Mingrelian + 18.40% Tatar_Mishar
3.32920790 81.00% Georgian_Mingrelian + 19.00% Tatar_Kazan
3.50927020 18.80% Bashkir_North + 81.20% Georgian_Mingrelian
3.51211753 17.40% Chuvash + 82.60% Georgian_Mingrelian
3.55212646 83.80% Georgian_Gurian + 16.20% Tatar_Kazan
3.55321202 16.00% Bashkir_North + 84.00% Georgian_Gurian
3.59158665 83.80% Georgian_Mingrelian + 16.20% Russian_Ural
3.59352048 85.20% Georgian_Mingrelian + 14.80% Veps
3.60744000 14.80% Chuvash + 85.20% Georgian_Gurian
3.61458553 84.60% Georgian_Mingrelian + 15.40% Russian_Arkhangelsk
3.61571076 83.60% Georgian_Mingrelian + 16.40% Komi
3.63314693 84.40% Georgian_Gurian + 15.60% Tatar_Mishar
3.73709915 83.40% Georgian_Mingrelian + 16.60% Mordovian
3.75610385 84.20% Georgian_Mingrelian + 15.80% Russian_Kostroma
3.76987850 14.00% Finnish_East + 86.00% Georgian_Mingrelian
3.77248967 85.60% Georgian_Mingrelian + 14.40% Karelian
3.77371814 84.80% Georgian_Mingrelian + 15.20% North_Russian
3.82908598 81.60% Georgian_Gurian + 18.40% Lipka_Tatar
3.83318057 86.00% Georgian_Gurian + 14.00% Mari
Yes probably he got that surname from his 1 grandfather from Dagestan, probably nogay, tatar etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterling Archer
Maybe they are Tats?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterling Archer
I haven't though of that. It is possible, but still hard for me to reconcile high steppe and lack of siberia. Unfortunately we don't have that many (I only have one) Azerbaijani tat samples to compare to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyp
The one I (whose father is from Absheron) have is different from Absheron samples here, and is more Dagestani shifted.
Tat,22.10,2.73,0,0.86,6.70,12.86,2.20,0,8.63,0.63, 43.19,0.12
Distance to: Tat
4.36114664 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.22527508 Azerbaijani_Turkey
7.42202802 Tsakhur_Azerbaijan
7.45962466 Udi_Azerbaijan
7.69302281 Ingush
7.86921216 Azerbaijani_Iran
7.89792378 Talysh_Azerbaijan
8.10874836 Azerbaijani
8.21140670 Adyghe
8.40471891 Zaza
9.07261263 Turk_East
9.21102600 Kumyk
9.22850475 Kurd_Kurmanji
9.43132546 Karachay
9.49040041 Kurd_Adygea
9.50027894 Ossetian
9.55973326 Abazin
9.73336530 Circassian
10.09756901 Kabardin
10.18201355 Chechen
10.43407878 Balkar
10.64135800 Turk_Southeast
10.76477589 Turk_Central_East
10.78490148 Yazidi
10.87154083 Iranian
Distance to: Tat
1.52982144 57.00% Adyghe + 43.00% Yazidi
1.65772972 61.40% Adyghe + 38.60% Lur_Iran
1.67293818 53.20% Ossetian + 46.80% Yazidi
1.76183054 50.20% Karachay + 49.80% Kurd_Adygea
1.78201986 53.00% Adyghe + 47.00% Kurd_Kurmanji
1.81974923 53.80% Adyghe + 46.20% Kurd_Adygea
1.82837141 61.60% Ingush + 38.40% Iraq_Turkmen
1.83243694 52.40% Ingush + 47.60% Zaza
1.85408262 58.80% Adyghe + 41.20% Kurd_Sorani
1.87322397 63.40% Adyghe + 36.60% Iranian_Fars
1.87530761 50.80% Kurd_Kurmanji + 49.20% Ossetian
1.90856183 45.00% Abazin + 55.00% Talysh_Azerbaijan
1.92995961 76.60% Azerbaijani_Dagestan + 23.40% Georgian
Finally, I run Absheron sample with tat included in the spreadsheet. This is what I get:
Distance to: Absheron02
8.41966745 Kurd_Sorani
8.82977916 Talysh_Azerbaijan
8.92191123 Kurd_Adygea
9.03586188 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
9.10379591 Kurd_Kurmanji
9.19872817 Iranian_Fars
9.34484350 Yazidi
9.40912855 Azerbaijani_Iran
9.76616097 Zaza
9.87385436 Iraq_Turkmen
9.89376571 Iranian
9.99694953 Azerbaijani
10.06427345 Tat
10.56926204 Lur_Iran
11.08866989 Iran_Khorasan
Again, very distant even from tat sample. I hope we can get more information about the source of these samples.
So far none of these samples look Azerbaijani to me, not even the first one. Maybe this is what Absheron tats will look like (different from the northern Azerbaijani tats) if we obtain more samples.
Weren’t the coastal parts of Azerbaijan once predominantly non-Turkish? Results from Lenkoran seem to be mixed for example, i think these results are just turkified Iranics. This steppe influence is indeed very high but aren’t Udi people also steppe influenced although they are neither Turkic nor Iranic? Maybe there were some northern impact from Caucasus whichQuote:
Originally Posted by Sterling Archer
influenced some natives or Iranics.
Absheron was considered predominantly populated by Tats. Tats seem to have high North_Euro (intermediate between NW Iranics and Dagestanis) and close to zero turkic input. Yes Udis are a good example although they probably are a bit western shifted compared to Tats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gecko
At least this is what it looks like for now. High northeuro and low turkic seems to be common in the Northeast and Tats I assume to be intermediate between Lezgins and Kurds.
Yes, Udis don't have that much steppe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyp
The other issue is that Turks used tat as a general term for iranic speaking population of Azerbaijan. This would indicate that tats probably don't have a common origin. So for example Northern tats from Guba/Derbent would be different from tats of Absheron.
One paper that studies Y-DNA found that Dagestani tats had similar haplogroups to Kubachin (subgroup of Dargins) people.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22275152/
J1-M267 65%
J2-M172 5%
R1b1-P25 25%
So here we might actually be talking about initial persianisation of local Caucasian people.
I don't know if i shared this result before.
A match of mine, dont know the exact ethnicity but She is from Eastern Black Sea. Distances are big, interesting result.
Population
Gedrosia 14.4 Pct
Siberian -
Northwest_African 0.33 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 8.37 Pct
North_European 2.87 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 12.59 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 61.45 Pct
Sub_Saharan -
Distance to: Hacer
5.96489732 Laz
6.02834140 Hemshin
7.36005435 Georgian_Adjara
7.78183783 Greek_Pontus
7.99574262 Georgian_Turkey
8.16931454 Turk_East_Black_Sea
9.81618052 Georgian_Imereti
11.49686479 Turk_Ahiska
11.66467745 Georgian_Mingrelian
11.99750807 Georgian_Gurian
12.02274927 Georgian
12.66655439 Armenian_East
13.32542682 Armenian_West
14.79494846 Georgian_Svan
15.23934054 Abkhazian
16.31870706 Assyrian_West
16.34124842 Assyrian_North
16.72809911 Assyrian_South
16.76575677 Azeri_Jew
17.14830604 Turk_East
17.82363880 Udi_Azerbaijan
17.89117939 Greek_Cappadocia
19.30408765 Kurdish_Jew
19.97560012 Iraqi_Jew
20.01217379 Iranian_Jew
Target: Hacer
Distance: 5.9065% / 5.90654593
98.4 Laz
1.6 Yemenite_Mahra
Target: Hacer
Distance: 5.9513% / 5.95125222 | ADC: 0.5x RC
70.4 Laz
29.6 Hemshin
Wow 61.5% caucasus, I think thats the highest I've seenQuote:
Originally Posted by RatCat
maybe that is causing the distance
No, Avars were in Northern Caucasus after northern India and western Turkistan, they were of Hunnic origin called White Huns, then they migrated to deep Europe and set an empire there. That is a fact and there is full evidence related to that including the genetics. What you claim sounds like Greeks were never present in Land of Kipchak or Persians were never present in Central Asia. So you believe that they had settled (though not in big numbers as Avars did in Europe) in those lands but Avars did not migrate and not settled in Europe, especially governed Slavics? Contradictory. I know you are Russian and its difficult to accept it as a IE theory supporter but there is enough proof that contemporary and early Avars are one and same although the former surely mixed with the locals (who were of Sarmatian origin). Thats why the y-haplogroup of Avar males is predominantly J1, after Sarmatian origins, with less R1 and mt-haplogroups are H, U and K5 and our test results reflect higher northern European components. I have even far-cousins from Icelanders from mt-DNAQuote:
Originally Posted by Leto
and they were (and still) are TurkicQuote:
Originally Posted by Leto
Leto I know you are into genetics, so here are some links about the genetics of Hungarian conquerers (and some of them are found to be related to Avars in Daghestan) and Sarmatians:
''There is a 1–1 mutation step deviation on 2 frequently mutating markers (DYS570 and DYS576) that are not in the network, which is in accord with the observation that the male from Bodrogköz is a direct descendant of either the research individual or the research individual’s close genetic relative. The two samples are 1 genetic step away on 17 loci from a Northeast Caucasian (from Dagestan) Avar sample; this haplogroup may have entered the Hungarian Conqueror genome in the foreground of the Caucasus''
https://link.springer.com/article/10...20-019-00996-0
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...y4xLNPFOaQ0haE
Everybody should read them
I am currently writing an academic article on White Huns and Avars and their connection to contemporary Avars in my university, as I also know the language, but I will share it when it is published
I think you are confusing something here. You are talking about Pannonian Avars, Turkic or Eruasian group not related to Caucasian Avars, who untill relatively recently weren't called Avars at all.Quote:
No, Avars were in Northern Caucasus after northern India and western Turkistan, they were of Hunnic origin called White Huns, then they migrated to deep Europe and set an empire there. That is a fact and there is full evidence related to that including the genetics. What you claim sounds like Greeks were never present in Land of Kipchak or Persians were never present in Central Asia. So you believe that they had settled (though not in big numbers as Avars did in Europe) in those lands but Avars did not migrate and not settled in Europe, especially governed Slavics? Contradictory. I know you are Russian and its difficult to accept it as a IE theory supporter but there is enough proof that contemporary and early Avars are one and same although the former surely mixed with the locals (who were of Sarmatian origin). Thats why the y-haplogroup of Avar males is predominantly J1, after Sarmatian origins, with less R1 and mt-haplogroups are H, U and K5 and our test results reflect higher northern European components. I have even far-cousins from Icelanders from mt-DNA
if you are interested, here is the info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Avars
Higher Europen component doesn't mean Avars were in Europe or vise versa. That component is not really European in origin. It originated somewhere in the Eurasian steppes, and sipped into Caucasus later. There are ethnic groups in Eurasia (Chuvash, Tatar for example) with much higher percentage of North Europe than any Avar or many europeans.
The fact that you have a cousin in Iceland means absolutely nothing. One guy in Nakchiavan, Azerbaijan ended up having distant cousins in Scotland and UK. Again, doesn't mean what you think it means. Just that some people moved around.
Nogai from Ankara Şereflikoçhisar Doğankaya village
Gedrosia 12.90 Pct
Siberian 12.93 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 2.48 Pct
Atlantic_Med 7.42 Pct
North_European 16.89 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 2.48 Pct
East_Asian 22.01 Pct
Caucasus 22.88 Pct
Sub_Saharan -
Distance to: Nogai_Gossar
10.51016175 Turkmen_Afghanistan
10.55310855 Uzbeki
10.92747912 Uzbek
13.29759001 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
13.88110947 Crimean_Tatar_Steppe
14.11713852 Nogai_Stavropol
16.59234763 Karakalpak
16.71658458 Turkmen_Iran
17.12899005 Uyghur
17.56775171 Nogai
18.59835477 Nogai_Astrakhan
20.90842414 Lipka_Tatar
20.91103776 Hazara
21.93062243 Turkmen_TM
22.90473968 Tajik_Mountain
23.07987868 Kazakh
23.17558845 Turk_Northwest
23.74177963 Bashkir_South
23.82371927 Tatar_Siberia
24.24372702 Turk_Southwest
24.95027054 Kyrgyz_Pamir
25.37774616 Tajik_Lowland
25.46302810 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain
26.48788780 Kyrgyz
26.61296113 Turk_West_BlackSea
Target: Nogai_Gossar
Distance: 2.4216% / 2.42158597 | ADC: 0.25x RC
31.6 Nogai
27.5 Nogai_Stavropol
13.6 Turk_Southwest
12.3 Uzbek
7.5 Crimean_Tatar_Steppe
7.5 Japanese
Here is Doğankaya village
https://youtu.be/2cDa9WEEMgs
The village belongs to the Cemboyluk tribe, they are probably from somewhere around the modern-day Melitopol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altaylı
are u just kidding me?? Who are you? How can you just challenge me with your little info and some crap from wiki?? sorry but I dont read or take wiki as a source. Dont you dare to write to me, an Avar from Dagestan who knows the language and have been researching about her roots and culture for years! You have no idea about us and our culture but you think you have got the right to talk lol. Am I talking about Azeris? What you wrote is laughable about the name Avar and as an Azeri you should be ashamed of yourself to not support me on this discussion and implicitly supporting the IE theoryQuote:
Originally Posted by Sterling Archer
Evidence? Dont jump in and speak without evidence with me. It was for Leto in the first place who is researching as well and you are commenting only with your feelings. I always talk with evidence and my whole results show how we are consistent with the migration routes of Avars as I can see all the Avars have more or less the same results in a DNA project group that I am member of. What are you trying to do? Who will applause you trying to challenge me? This is ridiculous and humiliating on your account. Whatever I write here has got proof and they are results of long research, not hearsay or wishful thinking about Avars like in your case! I am an academic and raised in that ethnicity so either read what I posted above in links or keep quiet before you research and learn wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Sterling Archer
oh and a question for Kaspias: why did you thumb him up so quickly? What do you know about Avars and their origins? or is he just your good friend?
Buusra, he is right though. Those medieval Avars are not the same thing as the modern Avars in Dagestan. I'm not interested in this debate and I advise you to not try and derail the thread any further.
DERAIL? LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Leto
you have just disappoint me so much. Any clear evidence, Leto? Tell me why he is right. Did you might as well have a look at the academic articles that I have submitted? You cant submit ANY evidence about whatever shit he wrote. So you are also making comments out of your feelings and for the sake of IE theory. And this means that I will not trust you any longer either
sure, end of story. I am not interested this debate with you either, but this doesnt change the truth! wait and see
Until it stays in a nice atmosphere, won’t get too off topic and won’t be a long talk, every discussion is ok. A bit diversity is ok :)
You are overreacting to nothing. That's super female of you! We are serious-ass men here, maybe except one teenager :D Look, we aren't here to debate those things. I can respect your opinion and I don't even have a dog in this fight. The Avars are Northeastern Caucasian, they are neither Turkic nor Indo-European. But they are related to Europeans indirectly of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buusra
I am 100% purebred serious man
To be honest, I am also surprised by such a strong reaction. I don't have a dog in this fight(didn't know there was a fight) either, I simply pointed out some historical facts. Goes to show, you have to be careful with some people:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Leto
On an unrelated issue, I received some "reputation" with some comments to some of my posts. As I am new to this forum, I don't know how to reply. Can anyone help me with that?
You can reply by clicking on the little star below.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterling Archer
On any post of that user? Because I don't see any star under my own post that received said reputation.