Eurogenes Biogeographic Ancestry Project [Archive] - Page 4 - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

Transhumanist

07-11-2011, 12:31 AM

European...R-M269...

The most likely point of origin of at least R-L23, and perhaps R-M269 as well, is West Asia. In the area with concentrations of "West Asian" at or in excess of ~50%.

Dienekes, recently, on the subject:

[I] looked at the ongoing Dodecad v3 results to possibly correlate the spread of R-M269 to Western Europe with the autosomal evidence...[It] is consistent with an episode of gene flow into Europe from West Asia that affected Western more than Eastern Europe, which parallels the R-M269 distribution in Europe.
Modeling spread of R1b1b2 into Europe (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/06/modeling-spread-of-r1b1b2-into-europe.html)

Dr. Anatole Klyosov, wrote the following, recently. I do not necessarily agree with it all.

In fact, those similarities do exist, albeit in a rather weak form because thousands of years passed since then. Still now most of R1b1a2 haplotypes in the Caucasus (in Armenia, Dagestan, Georgia) belong to the ancient L23 subclade (with a common ancestor in the Caucasus of around 6,000 ybp), and have a characteristic DYS393=12 allele, unlike DYS393=13 in most of European R1b1b2 haplotypes. From the Caucasus, R1b1a2-L23 and R1b1a2-M269 bearers went South over the mountains, to Anatolia (a common ancestor of 6,000 ybp), and then split into three major routes. One went further South, to Tigris and Euphrates Rivers, and became the Sumers. Many present-day Assyrians, descendants of ancient Sumers, still have their R1b1a2 haplotypes. Another went westward, across AsiaMinor, and came to Europe, to the Balkans and Mediterranean Sea region around 4500 ybp. The third group went across Northern Africa and Egypt (and,incidentally, might have left some R1b1b2 Pharaohs there) to the Atlantic and went across Gibraltar to the Iberian Peninsula around 4800 ybp. They became the Bell Beakers, and moved up North into the continental Europe. The Bell Beaker culture in Europe had lasted between about 4400 and 3800 ybp.
Proceedings of the Russian Academy of DNA Genealogy 2011 June Volume 4, No. 6 (http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_70/10723000/10723072/1/print/10723072.pdf)

Image source: simranjits' The Jatt Gene (http://blog.jattdna.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/DOD-v3-West-Asian1.jpg)

Barreldriver

07-11-2011, 02:10 AM

This is not to neglect great grandma who's half East Anglian half Hampshirite or however a person from Hampshire would be called, Kent a Southeastern region would be a naturally close match to someone with recent East Anglian ancestry as East Anglia is also Southeastern or so I would think.

I made a boo boo here should have put Hampshire instead of East Anglia. :p

More specific interpretation of July 4th dataset RMS results:

1. Kent 3.13 (represents my most recent Southeastern English ancestry from Hampshire and more distant ancestry from Buckinghamshire, then my Suffolk and Essex ancestry wouldn't be too far off as despite being "East English" they are relatively close to Southeastern England geographically).

2. UK 3.62 (since it's based on the pan-UK participant pool it could represent any and/or all of my various UK ancestry groups)

3. Cornwall 5.15 (was a bit of an odd ball IMO as I don't have any known Cornish ancestry, but I do have ancestors from Devon which borders Cornwall)

4. Germany 5.46 (represents my not even a full quarter German ancestry)

5. Scotland 5.66 (representing my Scots ancestors naturally)

Irish did make the top 10 (#8) and is explained in my genealogy, despite having great great grandmothers with Gaelic surnames they were by no means pure Gaelic but mostly English by ancestry, so the Gaelic being as diluted as it was it makes sense for Ireland to be set back as far as it was in these calculations.

Rochefaton

07-11-2011, 02:27 AM

I ran Pallantides' results from the NEU6g run and it would appear that run was more accurate for Scandians than the EU7b run. The opposite may hold to be true for the Brits and Micks.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/PallantidesNEU6g.jpg

Trog, here is your chart, you Keltic devil:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/TrogChart.jpg

Barreldriver

07-11-2011, 02:32 AM

I ran Pallantides' results from the NEU6g run and it would appear that run was more accurate for Scandians than the EU7b run. The opposite may hold be true for the Brits and Micks.

Even more reason why the results should be personalized in the context of personal genealogical trends more so than anything, if it doesn't make sense with the obvious parts of your genealogy try a different method that different method might be relevant to the self but not to someone else perhaps?

Trog

07-11-2011, 02:44 AM

Trog, here is your chart, you Keltic devil:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/TrogChart.jpg

Thanks, I'm surprised I'm closer to Cornwall than to Scotland. A bit disappointed actually, lol.

Pallantides

07-11-2011, 02:53 AM

I ran Pallantides' results from the NEU6g run and it would appear that run was more accurate for Scandians than the EU7b run. The opposite may hold to be true for the Brits and Micks.

Thanks!

:thumb001:

NEU6g
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/PallantidesNEU6g.jpg

EU7b
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/NO2Chart.jpg

yeah I think the NEU6g results are more accurate, at least for me.

Rochefaton

07-11-2011, 02:58 AM

Ibericus

07-11-2011, 03:22 AM

The most likely point of origin of at least R-L23, and perhaps R-M269 as well, is West Asia. In the area with concentrations of "West Asian" at or in excess of ~50%.
You guys are twisting everything. I never said that R1b-M269 was originary from Europe.

Rochefaton

07-11-2011, 05:53 PM

Here is your chart, EuroAmerican:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/US239Chart.jpg

You're closest 3 are:

Germany 9.53
Netherlands 9.73
Kent 11.00

poiuytrewq0987

07-11-2011, 06:28 PM

Alabamaman, could you run my results and post the chart? Thanks in advance.

Grumpy Cat

07-11-2011, 06:42 PM

How did you do that chart? Can you make one for me? CA21?

Rochefaton

07-11-2011, 06:45 PM

Alabamaman, could you run my results and post the chart? Thanks in advance.

Ask and you shall receive. :)

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/RS1EU7bChart.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/RS1NEU6g.jpg

If I would have known "RS" stood for Serbia, I would have added another group to my calculator when designing it, but alas, I did not. :(

Rochefaton

07-11-2011, 06:46 PM

How did you do that chart? Can you make one for me? CA21?

I put together a spreadsheet that works as a RMSD calculator for the EU7b and NEU6g runs. Give me about 15 minutes and I'll post your charts.

Rochefaton

07-11-2011, 07:00 PM

Here are your charts, Acadian:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/CA21EU7b.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/CA21NEU6g.jpg

The NEU6g run looks to be more accurate for you.

Loki

07-11-2011, 07:06 PM

The NEU6g run looks to be more accurate for you.

That run does not look more accurate for me, especially this:

North + Central European 38.7%
South + West European 40.75%

Totally out of whack with my ancestry, the latter run describes it much better.

Barreldriver

07-11-2011, 07:11 PM

I'm curious for any of the Aprician UK citizens here which run NEU6g or NEU7b was more accurate?

It had already been stated by Alabama that the NEU6g run seems to be more accurate for Scandinavians and those of Scandinavian descent as is seen with Pallantides and perhaps AcadianDriftwood maybe as she's half Faroer if I'm not mistaken.

I can only go off my results as someone with majority ancestry being from the UK that the NEU7b run was more accurate, but I'm not sure if that goes others with ancestry predominantly from or exclusively from the UK.

Graham

07-11-2011, 07:16 PM

Ran the NEU6g, changed a bit. The Irish is closer, norwegian further now. With Dutch in third place.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12301&stc=1&d=1310411704

Rochefaton

07-11-2011, 07:16 PM

That run does not look more accurate for me, especially this:

North + Central European 38.7%
South + West European 40.75%

Totally out of whack with my ancestry, the latter run describes it much better.

I'm almost finished with a calculator for the NEU5e run. I'm running some tests right now. I think making these charts for each run helps to see which runs are accurate and which are not.

Here is your chart for the NEU5e run, Loki:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/LokiNEU5e.jpg

Your results seem to get distorted when the South/Western Euro cluster is not broken down further.

poiuytrewq0987

07-11-2011, 07:17 PM

That run does not look more accurate for me, especially this:

North + Central European 38.7%
South + West European 40.75%

Totally out of whack with my ancestry, the latter run describes it much better.

I agree, on the NEU6 (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/RS1NEU6g.jpg)chart I am just as similar to Spain as I am to Hungary which is bit farfetched since both countries are pretty far away from each others and I have no Spanish ancestry.

However on the other chart Eu7b it shows I am similar to Romania and Hungary. I think is correct considering the geographic closeness of both countries to my region.

It's interesting how I am similar (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/RS1EU7bChart.jpg) to Hungarians and Romanians considering the linguistic differences between three groups (Slavic, Romance and Ugrian). I think it's just more evidence that the Balkan sprachbund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_sprachbund) goes beyond language.

Rochefaton

07-11-2011, 07:35 PM

I agree, on the NEU6 (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/RS1NEU6g.jpg)chart I am just as similar to Spain as I am to Hungary which is bit farfetched since both countries are pretty far away from each others and I have no Spanish ancestry.

Similar to Loki's situation, your results for the NEU6g run are distorted since Western and Southern Euro components are combined. Since you are from the Balkans and show a high affinity to Southern Europeans you are lumped together with the Spanish since nothing is seperating Southwestern Europe from Southeastern Europe on that run.

If you aren't virtually all Northern Euro on that run, it isn't going to be accurate for you.

Barreldriver

07-11-2011, 07:51 PM

Ran the NEU6g, changed a bit. The Irish is closer, norwegian further now. With Dutch in third place.

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12301&stc=1&d=1310411704

Which run would you say was more accurate for yourself? NEU7b or NEU6g?

Sikeliot

07-11-2011, 08:35 PM

Does anyone have population distances or a chart with the overall distances between an ethnicity and all the others?

Rochefaton

07-11-2011, 08:42 PM

Does anyone have population distances or a chart with the overall distances between an ethnicity and all the others?

Any particular ethnicity you would like to see compared to the others?

Sikeliot

07-11-2011, 08:44 PM

Any particular ethnicity you would like to see compared to the others?

Irish
French
Spanish
Portuguese
North Italian
South Italian
Greek
Finnish

Rochefaton

07-11-2011, 08:46 PM

Irish
French
Spanish
Portuguese
North Italian
South Italian
Greek
Finnish

Whew....alright. :lol: Give me about thirty minutes or so and I'll have them posted.

Sikeliot

07-11-2011, 09:01 PM

Whew....alright. :lol: Give me about thirty minutes or so and I'll have them posted.

:lol: Sorry for making you do all of that work. :eek:

Rochefaton

07-11-2011, 09:05 PM

Here they are, cmariexo:

Spain:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/ESChart.jpg

Finland:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/FIChart.jpg

France:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/FRChart.jpg

Greece:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/GRChart.jpg

Ireland:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/IEChart.jpg

Northern Italy:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/NItalyChart.jpg

Portugal:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/PTChart.jpg

Southern Italy:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/SItalianChart.jpg

I somehow skipped Spain. I will add them in a minute.

EDIT: Ok. Spain is at the top now.

Sikeliot

07-11-2011, 09:07 PM

Thank you so much, I owe you!

Rochefaton

07-11-2011, 10:13 PM

Here are you charts, Osweo:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/UK20EU7b.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/UK20NEU6g.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/UK20NEU5e.jpg

The reason you seem so distant to the other Brits and Micks is because your results are so British, it makes other Northwestern Europeans seem distant in comparison. Your score of 100% North Atlantic on the NEU5e run says it all.

Turkophagos

07-11-2011, 11:15 PM

Sub-Saharan:
http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/7632/subsaharanmap.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_L9C0t_MuE-k/TUjDNjaPikI/AAAAAAAADuA/aIBKp2BfzVE/s800/haters-gonna-hate-pink-suit.jpg

Ibericus

07-11-2011, 11:23 PM

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_L9C0t_MuE-k/TUjDNjaPikI/AAAAAAAADuA/aIBKp2BfzVE/s800/haters-gonna-hate-pink-suit.jpg
It's 0.8% and it's mostly berberid. While you greeks have 11% arabic and 28% levantine :

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadDRCd0dva0dwTzc3a0JicjZmRE96b Gc&hl=en&authkey=CPGxtqQM#gid=0

Sikeliot

07-11-2011, 11:24 PM

West Asian is Caucasus more like Armenia or Georgia.

Rochefaton

07-11-2011, 11:25 PM

I'm working on a calculator for the Neolithic Belt run Polako did. Then will be able to compare Greeks, Italians, the French, and Iberians to populations ranging from Assyrians, Armenians, and Turks, to Moroccoans, Ethiopians, the Hausa, Mandenka, Igbos, and some South Asians.

It's going to take some time because that run was massive, but I will eventually finish it.

DUN DUN DUN......!!!!!

Turkophagos

07-11-2011, 11:32 PM

It's 0.8% and it's mostly berberid. While you greeks have 11% arabic and 28% levantine :

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadDRCd0dva0dwTzc3a0JicjZmRE96b Gc&hl=en&authkey=CPGxtqQM#gid=0

Spaniards wanna try, Spaniards wanna lie
Then Spaniards wonder why, Spaniards wanna die
All I know is Spain, All I feel is rain
How can I maintain, with mad shit on my brain...

Ibericus

07-11-2011, 11:35 PM

West Asian is Caucasus more like Armenia or Georgia.
Well, but Caucasus people are ethnically and genetically very close with Levantines and Anatolians. They cluster together on plots, on tables of clusters, etc.

Transhumanist

07-12-2011, 02:03 AM

Electronic God-Man

07-12-2011, 02:23 AM

AlabamaMan, before you get worn out could you make one of these charts for me? I'm US2.
:)

Rochefaton

07-12-2011, 02:49 AM

AlabamaMan, before you get worn out could you make one of these charts for me? I'm US2.
:)

Sure thing, man. I'm off today, and don't have much to do other than work on the spreadsheets as a hobby, so it's not a problem at all. I enjoy seeing people's results as much as they do probably.

Here you go:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/US2EU7b.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/US2NEU6g.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/US2NEU5e.jpg

Hmmm....let's see here...If I had to guess I would say you're....Celto-Germanic leaning more towards Germanic?

Rochefaton

07-12-2011, 02:53 AM

Here (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=H1FR6ZZR) is the calculator for the NEU5e run. Same as the other two. Use OpenOffice, place your values in the designated cells and get a chart along with the numerical distances.

I'm Nordic in this run.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/MyNEU5eChart.jpg

Electronic God-Man

07-12-2011, 03:07 AM

Hmmm....let's see here...If I had to guess I would say you're....Celto-Germanic leaning more towards Germanic?

Well, yes. About 50% English, 20-25% Southwestern German/Swiss-German, 12.5% Irish, 12.5% Lithuanian.

These charts are pretty amazing. I wonder why on the EU7b chart I have a closer affinity to Germany than the UK. NEU6 has me closest to the Netherlands (even Denmark is closer on that one than UK). Perhaps NEU5e is closest just based on the fact that I come in closest to the UK on that one.

...could it be the Lithuanian skewing it?

Rochefaton

07-12-2011, 03:22 AM

Well, yes. About 50% English, 20-25% Southwestern German/Swiss-German, 12.5% Irish, 12.5% Lithuanian.

These charts are pretty amazing. I wonder why on the EU7b chart I have a closer affinity to Germany than the UK. NEU6 has me closest to the Netherlands (even Denmark is closer on that one than UK). Perhaps NEU5e is closest just based on the fact that I come in closest to the UK on that one.

...could it be the Lithuanian skewing it?

Yes, your S.E. Baltic score of 10.97% compared to the British average of 2.60% is probably what is putting you with ze Germans. It is hard to be certain if your Lithuanian ancestry is responsible for your S.E. Baltic score being higher than the US average of 6.23% since you have German ancestry and they average 15.73%.

However, since your German ancestry is from the Southwest and not the North or East, it very well could be due to the Lithuanian ancestry.

Barreldriver

07-12-2011, 04:51 AM

NEU5e again not as accurate as EU7b for me as it places Ireland as first instead of the UK.

1. Ireland 9.34
2. UK 12.55
3. France 15.92
4. Germany 16.62
5. Netherlands 17.79

The NEU5e run is the makes the least sense of the three in the context of my genealogy, as for now EU7b will be my primary reference for other family members of mine own who are interested in genealogy since the EU7b results match the pedigree to a letter.

Rochefaton

07-12-2011, 06:55 AM

Transhumanist

07-12-2011, 08:07 AM

I finished the spreadsheet for the Neolithic Belt run and will upload it tomorrow night. I made a chart for Transhumanist and the average Assyrian to see what the results were, and here they are:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/ASY12NeolithicBeltChart.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/ASYNeolithicBeltChart.jpg

It seems your results were more similar to the Armenian samples than to your fellow Assyrians' results. No surprise that Caucasian and Mesopotamian populations are your closest groups.

You do have some Armenian ancestry, though, correct?

Thanks very much, mate. I sincerely appreciate all the hard work.

Actually, despite my ~6% Armenian ancestry, I am ordinarily the least Armenian of the Assyrian lot. :) But, yeah, it is difficult to distinguish between Armenians and Assyrians in some of these analyses. Dienekes even made it a special project of his a few months back. :thumb001:

Imperivm

07-12-2011, 10:37 AM

Impervim's results from the EU7b run looked odd, so I ran his numbers from the NEU6g run, and like Pallantides, his NEU6g results appear to be more accurate considering his ethnicity.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/ImpervimNEu6g.jpg

Cheers mate. Why am I so close to the Irish but quite distant from the Spanish? Also, what does this make me? A typical Celto-Germanic Englishman?

Transhumanist

07-12-2011, 11:42 AM

It seems your results were more similar to the Armenian samples than to your fellow Assyrians' results. No surprise that Caucasian and Mesopotamian populations are your closest groups.

Here are the individual results for the Assyrians, sorted in descending order by the "Middle East" component. I think I know why Armenians (and other populations?) are closer to me than the Assyrian population. There are Eastern (me) and Western Assyrians. You can spot the Western Assyrians in this run by the "North African" component. Only two of the Eastern Assyrians have a bit. While all three of the Western Assyrians have a bit of the "North African" component. This is perfectly reasonable, as the Western Assyrians are geographically closer to the Levant.

Assyrians sorted in descending order by "Middle East," with my scores in red bold, based on values from the Neolithic Belt and surrounds:

E_Euras EuAnato Nafrica Sasian MidEast WCAfric Eafrica Wafrica
ASY7 0.45% 37.46% 0.92% 9.72% 51.45% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00%
ASY14 0.00% 41.64% 0.42% 6.50% 51.43% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00%
Hum 0.00% 37.54% 0.00% 11.34% 51.11% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00%
ASY9 0.00% 40.65% 0.00% 9.98% 49.37% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00%
ASY8 0.00% 40.09% 0.00% 11.30% 48.60% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00%
ASY10 0.00% 40.89% 0.00% 10.74% 48.36% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00%
ASY5 0.53% 38.44% 0.63% 12.06% 48.32% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00%
ASY2 0.56% 43.23% 2.16% 7.65% 46.39% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00%
ASY11 0.00% 43.71% 1.14% 9.77% 45.38% 0.00% 0.00% 0.00%

In this run, I registered more of the "Middle East" than the average Yemeni! Polako did a good job isolating, it would appear, a non-Afro "Middle East" component. At the very least, a reduced Afro "Middle East" component. As I mentioned to Polako at the time, it is not that I have anything against African components, but, our (Assyrian) relative lack of African admixture ordinarily leads to less of the "Middle East" or comparable component in ADMIXTURE runs.

Neolithic Belt and surrounds average K8 values for many populations (and some individuals) in the neighborhood of the Mid East, in descending order by the "Middle East" component.

E_Euras EuAnato Nafrica Sasian MidEast WCAfric Eafrica Wafrica

1 KSA 1% 9% 16% 4% 68% 0% 2% 0%
2 SIQ 1% 13% 12% 5% 63% 5% 1% 0%
3 PAL 1% 24% 11% 3% 55% 1% 3% 2%
4 YEM 2% 16% 12% 8% 50% 4% 7% 2%

5 ASY 0% 40% 1% 10% 49% 0% 0% 0%
6 JOR 1% 30% 10% 6% 47% 1% 3% 1%
7 SYR 1% 34% 6% 8% 46% 1% 2% 1%
8 NCIQ 2% 36% 2% 14% 45% 2% 0% 0%
9 LEB 2% 36% 7% 7% 44% 1% 3% 1%

10 ARM 0% 45% 0% 11% 43% 0% 0% 0%
11 EGY 1% 22% 19% 1% 43% 2% 8% 3%
12 CYP 0% 52% 5% 3% 40% 0% 0% 0%
13 IRN 1% 34% 1% 22% 39% 1% 1% 0%
14 GEO 0% 49% 0% 13% 38% 0% 0% 0%
15 ER1 1% 0% 15% 0% 37% 0% 47% 0%
16 LIB 1% 16% 35% 1% 33% 3% 7% 4%
17 TRK 5% 50% 1% 12% 32% 0% 0% 0%
18 ETH 1% 0% 16% 0% 31% 1% 50% 0%
19 SEJ 1% 55% 10% 2% 31% 0% 0% 0%
20 ASJ 2% 60% 7% 2% 29% 0% 0% 0%
21 GRK 1% 71% 3% 2% 23% 0% 0% 0%
22 PKEG1 1% 18% 2% 58% 20% 0% 1% 2%
23 ALG 1% 19% 47% 1% 17% 3% 4% 7%
24 MOR 1% 17% 53% 1% 10% 4% 3% 11%
25 PJT 2% 26% 0% 63% 9% 0% 0% 0%
26 UZB 36% 34% 0% 22% 8% 0% 0% 0%
27 PK1 5% 20% 1% 67% 7% 0% 0% 0%
28 IND 7% 8% 1% 79% 5% 0% 0% 0%
29 MOZ 0% 7% 75% 4% 3% 6% 1% 4%
30 KZ1 53% 31% 0% 13% 3% 0% 0% 0%
31 GUJ 2% 5% 1% 91% 1% 0% 0% 0%

SIQ=IQ2
NCIQ=Central (Baghdadi) Iraqi and N Iraqi/Balkar

Rochefaton

07-13-2011, 12:17 AM

Here (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AS7BLXJY) is a link to the Neolithic Belt calculator for those interested. Remember to use OpenOffice.

Rochefaton

07-13-2011, 02:02 AM

Cheers mate. Why am I so close to the Irish but quite distant from the Spanish? Also, what does this make me? A typical Celto-Germanic Englishman?

Because the Spanish and Irish are not nearly as related on an autosomal level as Y-DNA would lead people to believe. Your South/Western score is the highest out of the Brit samples and almost double the British average, but it is still only a little over half the Spanish average.

Also, your North/Central score of 34.6% is close to the Irish average of 36.8%. The Spanish average is 3.5%; big difference. That is why you are close to the Irish, but distant from the Spanish.

Boudica

07-13-2011, 10:10 PM

Electronic God-Man

07-13-2011, 10:13 PM

Wait, where/how do you get a chart like you just described? From Eurogenes?

It's Eurogenes! No! It's Polako! No way! It's...

AlabamaMan!

Polako

07-21-2011, 05:32 AM

Update...

Genetic substructures across Europe, part 2 - signals of a Finnic expansion into Europe (http://bga101.blogspot.com/2011/07/genetic-substructures-across-europe_20.html)

P.S. I won't be around much on forums etc. for the next 3 to 4 months, but will post updates at my blog, so plz check that regularly.

Boudica

07-21-2011, 05:45 AM

I need a bit of help interpreting my results :( im an idiot lol sorry

Polako

07-21-2011, 06:13 AM

I need a bit of help interpreting my results :( im an idiot lol sorry

These results look as expected for someone of your ancestry. You've got a high North Atlantic score, as well as a somewhat higher than average South Euro result when compared to Brits and Irish. Your moderately low North Euro score shows that your North European ancestry is from west of Scandinavia. The East Euro and Baltic scores don't indicate anything but general allele sharing across Europe. There's no sign of Asian or African admixture.

You'll be able to get a lot more info as the discussion gets going about this run, and various plots and graphs are generated by project members. Subsequent runs will give you futher details not seen here, because the reference samples and thus clusters will be somehwhat different.

Rochefaton

07-21-2011, 06:15 AM

I need a bit of help interpreting my results :( im an idiot lol sorry

What's your Eurogenes number?

Odoacer

07-21-2011, 06:15 AM

I need a bit of help interpreting my results :( im an idiot lol sorry

What is your Eurogenes ID? [EDIT: AlabamaMan, he's quick, he's strong, he's active ...]

My EU7c results:

South Euro: 0.265015
North Euro: 0.408191
East Euro: 0.04998
Baltic: 0.051269
Sub-Saharan: 0.00001
East Eurasian: 0.00001
North Atlantic: 0.225525

"Western" has disappeared, but I didn't have anything of it to begin with. "Northern" is much more dominant here, "Southern" is roughly the same, & "North Atlantic" has weakened considerably - by about 15 points. I wonder if this run will show any consistent pattern for the "North" vs. "North Atlantic" distinction.

Boudica

07-21-2011, 06:20 AM

These results look as expected for someone of your ancestry. You've got a high North Atlantic score, as well as a somewhat higher than average South Euro result when compared to Brits and Irish. Your moderately low North Euro score shows that your North European ancestry is from west of Scandinavia. The East Euro and Baltic scores don't indicate anything but general allele sharing across Europe. There's no sign of Asian or African admixture.

You'll be able to get a lot more info as the discussion gets going about this run, and various plots and graphs are generated by project members. Subsequent runs will give you futher details not seen here, because the reference samples and thus clusters will be somehwhat different.
thanks so much :D

Boudica

07-21-2011, 06:24 AM

My EU7c results :)

South Euro:0.173366
North Euro:0.15097
East Euro:0.050161
Balto-Slavic:0.066516
North Atlantic:0.558967

Polako

07-21-2011, 06:26 AM

AlabamaMan, he's quick, he's strong, he's active ...

Never a truer word spoken.

In fact, I'm gonna make a post about his Excel tool at my blog.

Loki

07-21-2011, 06:34 AM

This new run looks quite accurate. For example, my results look close to the Dutch averages!

48.4 "Yellow (North Euro)" (Dutch average 49.88)
19.7 "Red (South Euro)" (Dutch average 10.03)
16.2 "Pink (North Atlantic)" (Dutch average 28.53)
06.3 "Aqua (Baltic or Balto-Slavic)" (Dutch average 8.17)
05.5 "Green (East Euro or Finnic)" (Dutch average 3.17)
02.3 "Blue (Sub-Saharan African)" (Dutch average 0.00)
01.3 "Dark Blue (East Eurasian)" (Dutch average 0.01)

So as can be expected, my Southern Euro is somewhat higher than Dutch presumably because of French Huguenot admixture. North Euro didn't budge, must have been higher to start off with. What gave was North Atlantic, lower than Dutch aves. And, of course, my small non-Euro admixture is present. ;)

Rochefaton

07-21-2011, 06:40 AM

The AlabamaMan's new scores:

Southern European: 6.11
Northern European: 62.75
Finnic: 0.25
Balto-Slavic: 4.46
SSA: 0
East Eurasian: 0.49
North Atlantic: 25.94

I'll make a RMSD calculator for this run, but it will have to be tomorrow night. It's almost 2 AM here and I need my beauty sleep. :)

Boudica

07-21-2011, 06:41 AM

Would north atlantic be considered celtic? Such as Scotland, Ireland, etc? I'm guessing that symbolizes my half Scottish? :)

Polako

07-21-2011, 06:42 AM

Polako

07-21-2011, 06:44 AM

Would north atlantic be considered celtic? Such as Scotland, Ireland, etc? I'm guessing that symbolizes my half Scottish? :)

It's pre-Celtic, but yeah, today it certainly peaks in the former Celtic speaking areas of Northwestern Europe, like Ireland and Cornwall.

Boudica

07-21-2011, 06:51 AM

The southern euro is interesting, I only thought I was 12.5% Italian, what other areas does your southern euro plot cover :) ?

Loki

07-21-2011, 06:59 AM

The southern euro is interesting, I only thought I was 12.5% Italian, what other areas does your southern euro plot cover :) ?

Well your SE is 17%, not that far off. But SE is not restricted to your Italian ancestry, for example UK averages 4% and France 25%.

Polako

07-21-2011, 07:03 AM

The southern euro is interesting, I only thought I was 12.5% Italian, what other areas does your southern euro plot cover :) ?

If you're 12.5% Italian, then about 60-80% of your Southern European alleles came from that source. I haven't done any averages, but Brits carry about 4% of South Euro on average in this run.

These alleles don't necessarily represent recent Southern European ancestry in Northern and Eastern Europeans, but just allele sharing, because all of Europe was at some point populated from southern Europe. Most of the time they're like geographic coordinates, with South English more likely to carry more of them than North English, etc.

But peaks against people of similar background might reveal patterns in recent ancestry. So, for instance, if a Dane has 7% membership in the South Euro cluster, against the 2-3% of other Danes, then this might indicate admix from south of Denmark. And indeed that is the case in this run, with the Dane who has some German ancestry socring higher South Euro than the other Danes.

Frederick

07-21-2011, 07:03 AM

My, from this run:

Northern European: 48% (German average: 37%) Highest average: Sweden (59%)
Baltic or Balto-Slavic: 29% (German average: 20%) Highest Average: Lithuanians (85%)
Southern European: 14% (German average: 13%) Highest Average: Greeks (75%)
North Atlantic: 9% (German average: 26%) Highest Average: Ireland (65%)
Eastern European or Finnic: 0% (German average: 5%) Highest Average: North Russian (47%)

Trog

07-21-2011, 07:17 AM

Polako

07-21-2011, 07:20 AM

My updated results seem to show a higher "East Euro/Finnic" component in comparison to northern Euro, which perhaps explains some Finnic cousins in 23and me

North Atlantic - 77%
E Euro/Finnic - 16%
N. Euro - 6%

Yeah, the 16% is high.

I'm not sure what that means. I suspect that it could be a signal of some really old stuff shared between Northern Europeans in the west and east before the Indo-Europeans expanded from Central Europe into those areas. Otherwise, some sort of Finnic via Norway is an option, but your N Euro is a bit low for that maybe.

d3cimat3d

07-21-2011, 07:32 AM

South Euro - 43.95%
North Euro - 7.09%
East Euro or Finnic - 11.05%
Balto-Slavic - 26.22%
SSA - 0%
East Eurasian - 2.72%
North Altantic - 8.94%

:coffee:

Loki

07-21-2011, 08:25 AM

7% Black Sea Goth then, congrats! ;) :D
South Euro - 43.95%
North Euro - 7.09%
East Euro or Finnic - 11.05%
Balto-Slavic - 26.22%
SSA - 0%
East Eurasian - 2.72%
North Altantic - 8.94%

:coffee:

Agrippa

07-21-2011, 08:58 AM

This run seems to be much more consistent overall than the last, but still the relation of the related components remains a problem if comparing whole populations:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12681&stc=1&d=1311242785

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12674&stc=1&d=1311238091

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12675&stc=1&d=1311238091

Look how constant and smooth the line for combined North Atlantic and North Euro in the UK sample is, just like to be expected in a population. The extremes of North Atlantic : North Euro are just too extreme, something which repeats itself in the Continental Germanics and the Northern Europeans too, in which the pattern makes no sense at all, with some Swedes and Finns having zero North Atlantic, whereas in others it makes up more than the half of the Northern total.

Similar with Baltic vs. East Euro, though not as extreme.

Still one can read interesting things, for examples SE9 is more Eastern European than the Swedish average, but with very little East Eurasian (so not Finnic).

I add the Spaniards now, look how smooth and homogenous the line of total Northern vs. Southern becomes:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12676&stc=1&d=1311239891

vs. the irregular behaviour of North Atlantic : North Euro.

Why should someone with 50 percent "North Euro" having no "North Atlantic" or vice versa?

If that would be related to a total change, possible, but if the general line is so homogenous, there is a problem.

French:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12682&stc=1&d=1311243595

Irish:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12683&stc=1&d=1311243593

Compare the Continental Germanics with the regular components:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12681&stc=1&d=1311242785

With Northern total:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12678&stc=1&d=1311242401

and Northern + Eastern total:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12679&stc=1&d=1311242401

poiuytrewq0987

07-21-2011, 10:10 AM

EU7c

South Euro: 45.8% (Illyrian)
North Euro: 18.4% (Gothic)
East Euro or Finnic: 0.01%
Balto-Slavic: 32.4% (Serbian)
Eurasian: 0.01%
North Atlantic: 0%
Sub-Saharan: 0%

http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp231/innocent456/graph.jpg?t=1311243476

safinator

07-21-2011, 10:37 AM

Does anyone have an info about Albanians members and their results?

Frederick

07-21-2011, 10:43 AM

Hmm.

If I compare these results to say, the Dodecad Oracle ones, I see a slight correlation between my Northern results and the Oracle mix prediction.

But I couldnt find a similiar correlation with the North Atlantic result. (comparation Irish-Hungarian or Irish-Balkan led to identical results as for the average German)

This is a comparation of the Northern results with Oracle mix prediction:

Northern me: 48%
Northern average German: 37%

Oracle:

Me:
41.8% Hungarians + 58.2% Swedish_D
Average German:
46.6% Hungarians + 53.4% Swedish_D

Me:
46.8% Hungarians + 53.2% Norwegian_D
Average German:
50.1% Hungarians + 49.9% Norwegian_D

Me:
52.2% Swedish_D + 47.8% Slovenian
Average German:
46.5% Swedish_D + 53.5% Slovenian

The tendency is there, but far less pronounced.
And yeah, my extemely low North Atlantic doesnt makes Oracle predict lower Irish in pairwise mixes for me that what is normal.

Hmm

poiuytrewq0987

07-21-2011, 11:07 AM

Does anyone have an info about Albanians members and their results?

Go to 23andme.com then order your test and after you get your results back, submit your raw data to Polako.

Amapola

07-21-2011, 12:33 PM

Here I go:

"Red (South Euro)" 44,74
"Yellow (North Euro)" 20,68
"Green (East Euro or Finnic)" 3,88
"Aqua (Baltic or Balto-Slavic)" 0
"Blue (Sub-Saharan African)" 0,86
"Dark Blue (East Eurasian)" 0
"Pink (North Atlantic)" 29,80

Kadu

07-21-2011, 01:21 PM

P.S. I won't be around much on forums etc. for the next 3 to 4 months, but will post updates at my blog, so plz check that regularly.

After the E7b run I never got to tell you, that the absence of an Anatolian, a Levantine and a North African component is most likely skewing the results for South Euros, nonetheless thank you for your effort.

My results, PT1:

South Euro: 38.65%
North Atlantic: 37.38%
North Euro: 18.01%
East Euro/Finnic: 3.81%
SSA: 1.91%
East Eurasian: 0.2%

Pallantides

07-21-2011, 02:59 PM

My results(NO2)

North Atlantic : 39.52%
North Euro : 35.29%
Baltic or Balto Slavic : 14.32%
East Euro or Finnic : 10.42%
East Eurasian : 0.42%
South Euro : 0%
Sub-Saharan African : 0%

Barreldriver

07-21-2011, 03:14 PM

Mine (US83):

South Euro: 11.4262%
North Euro: 29.2893%
East Euro/Finnic: 2.2933%
Baltic/Balto-Slav: 9.5288%
Subsaharan African: 0%
East Eurasian: 0%
North Atlantic Euro: 47.4604%

Rochefaton

07-21-2011, 05:49 PM

poiuytrewq0987

07-21-2011, 05:51 PM

Very nice AM, do you think you could make another one for me again? :D

Pallantides

07-21-2011, 05:57 PM

Make on for me too... please:D

Rochefaton

07-21-2011, 06:00 PM

Very nice AM, do you think you could make another one for me again? :D

Sure. Here you go:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/RS1EU7cChart.jpg

Your closest 5 are:

RS 5.29
RO 6.23
MD (Macedonia?) 6.75
HU 9.78
UA 16.15

poiuytrewq0987

07-21-2011, 06:02 PM

Sure. Here you go:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/RS1EU7cChart.jpg

Your closest 5 are:

RS 5.29
RO 6.23
MD (Macedonia?) 6.75
HU 9.78
UA 16.15

Thanks man! Md is not Macedonia but Moldovia. Macedonia uses Mk (Makedonija). :)

Rochefaton

07-21-2011, 06:15 PM

I somehow left ze Germans out of the spreadsheet that I uploaded. Here (http://www.mediafire.com/?86j48fqep070e5p) is a link to a spreadhseet with them included. Sorry!

Peasant

07-21-2011, 06:19 PM

http://i54.tinypic.com/2v28nie.jpg

Piechart of mine. Ill have a look at the RMSD spreadsheet later if I have time.:)

Rochefaton

07-21-2011, 06:19 PM

Pallantides, here is your chart:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/NO2EU7cChart.jpg

Your closest 5 are:

Kent 5.03
US 5.41
NO 6.81
AT 7.73
NL 7.79 (DE 7.79 too)

poiuytrewq0987

07-21-2011, 06:21 PM

http://i54.tinypic.com/2v28nie.jpg

Piechart of mine. Ill have a look at the RMSD spreadsheet later if I have time.:)

Why are you Northerners and Westerners scoring East Euro and/or Finnic whereas I have absolutely none? :confused:

Pallantides

07-21-2011, 06:23 PM

Pallantides, here is your chart:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/NO2EU7cChart.jpg

Your closest 5 are:

Kent 5.03
US 5.41
NO 6.81
AT 7.73
NL 7.79 (DE 7.79 too)

What is AT, is it Austria?

Why are you Northerners and Westerners scoring East Euro and/or Finnic whereas I have absolutely none? :confused:

Peasant and Sorcha have higher Finnic than me also.

Rochefaton

07-21-2011, 06:25 PM

What is AT, is it Austria?

I'm not sure, but that is what I am assuming. Perhaps someone else knows.

Humanophage

07-21-2011, 06:27 PM

Indeed, AT is Austria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1) (and it's inbetween CH and DE on the list).

The calculator at Mediafire doesn't seem to have Germans in it. It ends at the US for me.

Pallantides

07-21-2011, 06:29 PM

delete

Rochefaton

07-21-2011, 06:29 PM

Thank you for the calculator. It seems Germans are absent though.

AT is Austria (a common acronym and similar to Germans).

You're weclome. Yeah, Agrippa pointed out the missing Germans to me already. I linked to another spreadsheet with them included. My bad there. :embarrassed

Frederick

07-21-2011, 06:43 PM

Can you make one for me Alabama?
Thank you. :)

Rochefaton

07-21-2011, 06:49 PM

Can you make one for me Alabama?
Thank you. :)

Here you are:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/DE8EU7cChart.jpg

Your closest 5 are:

HU 8.48
DE 8.56
NL 8.56
SE 9.62
DK 9.63

Peasant

07-21-2011, 07:01 PM

http://i52.tinypic.com/jh9090.jpg

:mmmm:

poiuytrewq0987

07-21-2011, 07:04 PM

http://i52.tinypic.com/jh9090.jpg

:mmmm:

Clear example of isolated British... :D

Agrippa

07-21-2011, 07:04 PM

http://i52.tinypic.com/jh9090.jpg

:mmmm:

That is some sort of error.

I tested it with various individuals from the spreadsheet and it worked best when I first copied the data in a row on excel and just pasted it into the tool.

For sure no correct result.

Rochefaton

07-21-2011, 07:07 PM

:mmmm:

What's your Id number? I'll run it for you, if you are having issues with the spreadsheet.

Rochefaton

07-21-2011, 07:20 PM

Here you are, Peasant:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/PeasantEU7cChart.jpg

S.W. Scot 3.37
Cornwall 4.08
Kent 5.93
IE 7.01
US 8.29

Imperivm

07-21-2011, 07:26 PM

Me- UK35.

South Euro= 7.92% (UK average= 4.4956844%)
North Euro= 48.8139% (UK average= 41.0525375%)
East Euro or Finnic= 1.5232% (UK average= 5.2126156%)
Baltic or Balto-Slavic = 8.0547% (UK average= 4.9839406%)
North Atlantic= 33.6863% (UK average= 44.1566813%)

I live about 2 miles from the Dorset coast, although my mums side is from Northern England (if that helps you Polako).

Agrippa

07-21-2011, 07:28 PM

The predictive value of the new data for Europeans, especially Northern Europeans, seems to be pretty good actually.

Rochefaton

07-21-2011, 07:52 PM

Boadicea, here is the chart I promised I would make for you a few weeks ago:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/US245EU7cChart.jpg

Your closest 5 are:

Cornwall 7.09
IE 7.82
SW Scot 7.98
AT 9.05
ES 10.93

Pallantides

07-21-2011, 08:09 PM

Everyone loves graphs;)
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/235/graphbe.png

Barreldriver

07-21-2011, 08:35 PM

This one is pretty close to what I got with the Eu7b with the exception that Cornwall came out before Kent this time and the UK is at the bottom of my top 10 instead of in the top 5. :p

1.Cornwall: 4.52126
2.Kent: 5.16764
3.Austria: 5.96096
4. USA: 6.2559
5.SW Scotland: 6.296057
6. Ireland: 8.56124
7. Netherlands: 9.51702
8. Norway: 11.5564
9. Switzerland: 12.0201
10. United Kingdom: 13.643

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k438/ragnarok1227/Eu7cRMSgraphUS83.jpg

Barreldriver

07-21-2011, 08:50 PM

Did the wrong Eu7c calculator (last one didn't have Germans in it), the redo, only difference is Germany made the top 10 right before Netherlands and bumped out the UK project participants which seems strange as Cornwall, Kent and SW Scotland are all part of the UK and are in my top 10:

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k438/ragnarok1227/Eu7cgraphUS83.jpg

1. Cornwall: 4.52126
2. Kent: 5.16764
3. Austria: 5.96096
4. USA: 6.2559
5. SW Scotland: 6.296057
6. Ireland: 8.56124
7. Germany 9.517
8. Netherlands: 9.51702
9. Norway: 11.5564
10. Switzerland: 12.0201

Electronic God-Man

07-21-2011, 09:21 PM

New Results:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12689&d=1311283226

Loki

07-21-2011, 09:21 PM

My closest 10 groups are:

DK 4.66
SE 7.06
NO 7.14
US 9.65
Kent 10.70
NL 11.91
DE 11.91
AT 16.88 (Austria?)
CH 17.02 (Switzerland?)
Cornwall 17.14

A very Nordic man, you are. More so than many modern Scandinavians. :)

Imperivm

07-21-2011, 09:34 PM

Humm, these results are quite different from the Dodecad results-

0.0419444444 Kent
0.0759722222 Dutch
0.1077083333 British
0.1252083333 B_Isles_
0.1319444444 Cornwall
0.24875 MixedGermanic
0.3941666667 Irish
0.7247916667 Orkney_1KG
0.7572916667 Orcadian
0.8971527778 Argyll_1KG
1.0177777778 CEU
1.3249305556 Norwegian
1.3572916667 French
1.5732638889 French
1.7516666667 Swedish_D
2.1145138889 German
3.9127083333 F.Basque
6.5538194444 Spaniards

Eurogenes-

US= 3.6712376271
Denmark = 4.745819
Norway= 4.726178
Kent= 4.851023
Germany= 7.4453446625
Netherlands= 7.445363
Sweden = 9.1795206847
Austria= 10.973786298
Cornwall= 11.4437204802
SW Scot= 12.5844314248
Switzerland= 13.1932119992
UK= 14.9523266226 (new UK score 5.4028101154)
Ireland= 15.8630910337

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12692&d=1311320064

Rochefaton

07-21-2011, 09:35 PM

Here is your chart, Loki:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/LokiEU7cChart.jpg

Rochefaton

07-21-2011, 09:37 PM

A very Nordic man, you are. More so than many modern Scandinavians. :)

Yeah, I don't know how I will be able to carry on knowing I'm so Scando. :( :D

Impervim, "CH" stands for Switzerland.

Frederick

07-21-2011, 09:38 PM

"CH= 13.1932119992 what's CH?"

"Confoederatio Helvetica" (Latin) ... means "Swiss confederation" ---> Switzerland

Loki

07-21-2011, 09:48 PM

Here is your chart, Loki:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/LokiEU7cChart.jpg

Thank you. Closest to Denmark! Looks quite Northern too.

Rochefaton

07-21-2011, 09:49 PM

Thank you. Closest to Denmark! Looks quite Northern too.

Yep. Welcome to the Germanic club. ;)

Scrapple

07-21-2011, 10:46 PM

My results (UKCEU2)

Interesting no Finnic nor North Atlantic at all.

Southern Euro 0.198737
Northern Euro 0.359272
Finnic 0.00001
Balto-Slavic 0.441952
SSA 0.00001
East Eurasian 0.00001
North Atlantic 0.00001

Ah the randomness of dna recombination. Now I can see why 4GP same ethnicity is preferred.

Pallantides

07-21-2011, 11:01 PM

A very Nordic man, you are. More so than many modern Scandinavians. :)

What do you mean by this?:mmmm:

Loki

07-22-2011, 12:05 AM

What do you mean by this?:mmmm:

He has a very high Northern European genetic element ... which points to Germanic/Nordic ancestry. This element is highest in Sweden in Denmark, it is fairly clear.

Loki

07-22-2011, 12:06 AM

Pallantides

07-22-2011, 12:18 AM

He has a very high Northern European genetic element ... which points to Germanic/Nordic ancestry. This element is highest in Sweden in Denmark, it is fairly clear.

Maybe I'm reading into your comment totally wrong, but to me it seemed like you were implying that many "modern" Scandinavians were somehow less Nordic and not as (true)Scandinavian as he is...

Loki

07-22-2011, 12:20 AM

Maybe I'm reading into your comment totally wrong, but to me it seemed like you were implying that many "modern" Scandinavians were somehow less Nordic and not as (true)Scandinavian as he is...

If you look at averages, yes. But individually many Swedes and Danes score much higher.

Hussar

07-22-2011, 02:15 AM

Personal results from the last plot :

North-atlantic = 45.7%

South-euro = 45.8%

Balto-slavic = 8.4%

North-euro = 0.0%

Finnic = 0.0%

Sub-saharan = 0.0%

East-asian = 0.0%

d3cimat3d

07-22-2011, 02:29 AM

7% Black Sea Goth then :D

Maybe that, or Varangians or something. To bad those Goths had to bail out west. I envy the Balkan and the Spanish north European scores. :mad:

Anyways, this map hasn't been posted yet, but thank someone named Day Tripper for it:

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/7090/eu7c.png

Rochefaton

07-22-2011, 04:42 AM

Here you are, Sorcha:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/UK39EU7cChart.jpg

Polako

07-22-2011, 05:38 AM

I'm loving the results from this run.

I've just started a K=8 to see what happens. My hopes are high for a solid result, and even more interesting output than from the K=7, but it's just as likely that the laptop will shit itself instead.

Boudica

07-22-2011, 05:43 AM

Polako

07-22-2011, 06:15 AM

Can I be included in this as well :)

Yes, you're on the sheet. It's the same sheet as the K=7.

Boudica

07-22-2011, 06:19 AM

Yes, you're on the sheet. It's the same sheet as the K=7.

Cool :D thanks! :D

Loki

07-22-2011, 06:24 AM

Anyways, this map hasn't been posted yet, but thank someone named Day Tripper for it:

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/7090/eu7c.png

Don't know if it's just me, but it comes up as blank for me. :confused:

poiuytrewq0987

07-22-2011, 07:04 AM

Don't know if it's just me, but it comes up as blank for me. :confused:

It's working for me.

Location of Serbs on map:

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/260/serbs.png

Polako

07-22-2011, 08:05 AM

Why should someone with 50 percent "North Euro" having no "North Atlantic" or vice versa?

It's because the main 3 North European components are usually within 0.025 Fst of each other, and the North Euro and North Atlantic usually within 0.02 Fst. So only a handful of alleles are used to differentiate them. That's really finescale stuff.

Better sampling might fix the problem, and probably so would extra markers. But 200,000 unlinked SNPs is all I can get from the 23andME data, and that's pretty much what my laptop can handle anyway.

A STRUCTURE-like algorithm would also probably help eliminate the extremes, but it would take days to complete each run. ADMIXTURE is much faster, but more choppy.

In the end, it's best to remember that we're looking at ancestral probabilities here, and not straight up genetic structure. So these results will place us into our ethnic groups of origin, and we're likely to get some very strong hints about the type and maybe even amount of admixture from other parts of Europe. But many people won't get a set of scores that truly reflect their genetic structure across the 22 autosomes. For that we'd need something like the Ancestry Painting, with extremely well chosen and comprehensive reference samples.

Agrippa

07-22-2011, 10:27 AM

Don't know if it's just me, but it comes up as blank for me. :confused:

That's because it is so huge. My computer has problems with it too, better bring it into bitmap and edit it there, probably reducing size too, because otherwise there is not too much of an overview.

The positioning makes sense it seems.

It's because the main 3 North European components are usually within 0.025 Fst of each other, and the North Euro and North Atlantic usually within 0.02 Fst. So only a handful of alleles are used to differentiate them. That's really finescale stuff.

I just wonder if no other component popped up for Europe, since this one seems to be not informative enough?

I mean, if we would have siblings in this run, I wouldn't wonder if they would come up with totally different results for their Northern components in particular, probably changed "all or nothing" results to say it that way.

Better sampling might fix the problem, and probably so would extra markers. But 200,000 unlinked SNPs is all I can get from the 23andME data, and that's pretty much what my laptop can handle anyway.

Of course, I realise the technical limitations.

A STRUCTURE-like algorithm would also probably help eliminate the extremes, but it would take days to complete each run. ADMIXTURE is much faster, but more choppy.

In the end, it's best to remember that we're looking at ancestral probabilities here, and not straight up genetic structure. So these results will place us into our ethnic groups of origin, and we're likely to get some very strong hints about the type and maybe even amount of admixture from other parts of Europe. But many people won't get a set of scores that truly reflect their genetic structure across the 22 autosomes. For that we'd need something like the Ancestry Painting, with extremely well chosen and comprehensive reference samples.

The future... :)

I just wanted to point out the relative character of the differentation, because some people just over-interpret it, when in reality the distribution is often too much of a random thing if looking at the samples as a whole - which is easier with graphics.

The final positioning is still good enough for most, so it is informative overall.

Thanks for your answer and efforts, very much appreciated, you're doing a great job!

Every small failure might lead to a future improvement - that's my credo for such things :thumb001:

Frederick

07-22-2011, 10:57 AM

I quickly made some crude outlines around regions/countries and tried to mark people in wich those components peak.
Picture is also smaller
Somehow, I wasnt able to find the FIN on the map... ;)

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12693&stc=1&d=1311332154

Scrapple

07-22-2011, 11:14 AM

High Balto-Slavic ... sure you have no such ancestry? Not listed in your profile.

I haven't found it yet. Polako is an RF match of mine and he has high Baltic and I do have a 17cM 3 GP southern Poland 1 GP Lithuanian match but don't have a paper trail yet so don't know what to put down. So it is real.

All the others in my profile I can document.

Edit: I am dumb sometimes, some of my German came over in the 19th century was from the area that was known as Prussia.

Frederick

07-22-2011, 11:32 AM

Polako is an RF match of mine

Funny. I have him too.
I share 5.1cM with him.

If I remember it right, Polako has, besides his Polish anchestry, "Baltic States" and "Austrian/Hungaran Empire" lineages that he knows of.

Sahson

07-22-2011, 11:47 AM

I finished up the RMSD calculator for the EU7c run this morning. Here (http://www.mediafire.com/?0xsh78qn2buk2gm) is a link to the new spreadsheet. I used OpenOffice again because Excel was being a pain.

Looks like I'm Scandian once again.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/EU7cChart.jpg

My closest 10 groups are:

DK 4.66
SE 7.06
NO 7.14
US 9.65
Kent 10.70
NL 11.91
DE 11.91
AT 16.88 (Austria?)
CH 17.02 (Switzerland?)
Cornwall 17.14

I've tried pissing about with your spreadsheet, and can't get that chart thingy, can you do one for me please AU5.

Here I am in Pie format, everyone likes pie.

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/SoliloCey/ADMIXTURE.png

poiuytrewq0987

07-22-2011, 11:51 AM

Frederick

07-22-2011, 12:05 PM

Estonians clustering with Slavic Poles, oh the horror!

Those (member) Estonians are strange anyways.
They totaly stuck out with strange results in the several past runs.

I recall a run, in wich these 2 Estonians made Estonia extremely "North Atlantic" (not this time. Seems this time the same signal was interpreted as "Northern European") And this "Northernm European" pulls them to the left, into Poland.

Also, in this run, they have huge Balto-Slavic components and tiny East-Euro Finnic one.

From people who speak a Uralic language, I would expect far higher Finnic results.

Ok... its strange that TWO Estonians, BOTH show strange results, but lets wait for more Estonians. ;)

poiuytrewq0987

07-22-2011, 01:45 PM

Those (member) Estonians are strange anyways.
They totaly stuck out with strange results in the several past runs.

I recall a run, in wich these 2 Estonians made Estonia extremely "North Atlantic" (not this time. Seems this time the same signal was interpreted as "Northern European") And this "Northernm European" pulls them to the left, into Poland.

Also, in this run, they have huge Balto-Slavic components and tiny East-Euro Finnic one.

From people who speak a Uralic language, I would expect far higher Finnic results.

Ok... its strange that TWO Estonians, BOTH show strange results, but lets wait for more Estonians. ;)

Maybe they're not that Finnic after all? I know for a fact that Karl carries R1a haplogroup... :D

Sahson

07-22-2011, 01:56 PM

Maybe they're not that Finnic after all? I know for a fact that Karl carries R1a haplogroup... :D

They saw the Nordic finns, and tried Imitating them ever since, even to the language!

http://satwcomic.com/art/party-crasher.jpg

Grumpy Cat

07-22-2011, 02:11 PM

I find it interesting on that cluster map that other French-Canadians are more north than me. I thought it'd be the other way around.

Frederick

07-22-2011, 02:25 PM

Maybe they're not that Finnic after all? I know for a fact that Karl carries R1a haplogroup... :D

Yeah. Wich isnt unusual for Estonians, but Fin. In fact Fin are a R1a "hole".
With NOrwegians and Swedes carrying like 20-30%, Baltic countries with like 30-40% and Russians at 50%. But Fins at 8%

And Estonias R1a frequencies aswell as N1 frequencies are rather Baltic, not Finnic. But it has almost 3times as much I1 than other Baltic countries. Almost.... North-German levels of it.

*checks*

Estonias connection to Finland are... their females.
They have much higher levels of U5 (The haplogroup that dominated even Germany, 7000 years ago (80%+ of pre-farming central European corpses carry that) and today that one peaks in Fins.

So,who was stealing some Euro versions of Pocahontas hunter-gatherer princesses? :D

@Sahson: Thats mean! ;)

Electronic God-Man

07-22-2011, 02:53 PM

I am right on top of US114 and US98 (as well as a "Kent") on that huge map. Anyone know who they are?

Sahson

07-22-2011, 03:39 PM

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/SoliloCey/UKgraph.png

poiuytrewq0987

07-22-2011, 03:50 PM

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/SoliloCey/UKgraph.png

Hm, I never noticed it until now but... what does UK actually means? English or?

Frederick

07-22-2011, 03:53 PM

Hm, I never noticed it until now but... what does UK actually means? English or?

No. Its project members from all over United Kingdom.
England, Scottland, maybe Wales (if there are some). But its not limited to English.

EDIT:

If one for example compares the "British_D" members of dodecad (wich are possibly the same people like the ones from Eurogenes) with the Cornwall, Kent etc in the "Oracle tool".... you get this:

Cornwall = 90% "British_D" + 10% "Irish_D" (hmm, sounds ok)
Kent = 50% "British_D" + 50% "Dutch_D" (hmm ok...)
SW-Scotts = 65% "British_D" + 35% Hungarians... (fail? LOL)

he he

Sahson

07-22-2011, 03:53 PM

Hm, I never noticed it until now but... what does UK actually means? English or?

I'm not sure, but UK probably means Sweaty Scot, Welsh, and English.

Trog

07-22-2011, 04:41 PM

I'm not sure, but UK probably means Sweaty Scot, Welsh, and English.

Don't you mean 'sweaty sock' as in jock!:thumbs up

Sahson

07-22-2011, 04:50 PM

Don't you mean 'sweaty sock' as in jock!:thumbs up

I don't know... I'm not good with inter-British insults, and I actually prefer the scots at times, meet some really good scots.

Rochefaton

07-22-2011, 08:24 PM

Here is your chart, Sahson:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/AU5Eu7cChart.jpg

You look to be quiet Nordic on this run. Your chart is similar to mine too, except the Swedes are closer than the Norwegians in my chart.

Don Brick

07-22-2011, 08:33 PM

AlabamaMan, would you mind doing a chart for me too? I´m FI6. Thanks a lot!

Rochefaton

07-22-2011, 08:42 PM

AlabamaMan, would you mind doing a chart for me too? I´m FI6. Thanks a lot!

Sure thing.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/FI6EU7cChart.jpg

Finland is your closest...who would have ever thought that?

Trog

07-23-2011, 01:49 AM

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/SoliloCey/UKgraph.png

Who is UK20 and UK9? Seems I'm in competition with them to be the most Atlantic:D. I think I'm edging it.

Trog

07-23-2011, 01:54 AM

Here you are, Sorcha:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/UK39EU7cChart.jpg

Thanks AM, but I'm a wee bit confused with some of these. For example, it places me closer to Austria (?), Spain, Portugal, US, France and the Netherlands before it does UK or Norway? My western European element was quite high before (about 30%), I'm wondering if these results are a reflection of this? Also, the Austrian thing makes me think it's a Celtic connection.

Ireland
SW Scotland
Cornwall
Austria
Kent
US
Spain
Portugal
France
Switzerland
Netherlands
UK/Norway

Also, a striking result that I'm closer to Irish than SW Scots, the area I live in right now.

Boudica

07-23-2011, 02:05 AM

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/SoliloCey/UKgraph.png

Dude, this is great :D us245 :) thanks for this.

Rochefaton

07-23-2011, 03:02 AM

Thanks AM, but I'm a wee bit confused with some of these. For example, it places me closer to Austria (?), Spain, Portugal, US, France and the Netherlands before it does UK or Norway?

The Norwegians have a very high Northern European average and relatively low North Atlantic average compared to you; easy answer there. The answer to your weird UK score is easy too. I screwed up. When typing in the average Uk Southern European score of 4.49, I typed "44.49". That is why your Uk distance is messed up. This means everyone else's Uk score are incorrect too.

Just tally up another FAIL for the AlabamaMan. :( Here (http://www.mediafire.com/?kuoc2tnyuiyg393) is a link to a spreadsheet with an accurate UK comparison, and here is your new chart with an accurate Uk distance, Sorcha:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/UK39EU7cChart-1.jpg

Boudica

07-23-2011, 03:11 AM

Alabamaman, I don't get the chart that much, what could you tell me what the abbreviations on the bottom stand for so I can read more into it? :D thanks :D

Rochefaton

07-23-2011, 03:19 AM

Alabamaman, I don't get the chart that much, what could you tell me what the abbreviations on the bottom stand for so I can read more into it? :D thanks :D

GR = Greece
S. IT = Southern Italy
N. IT = Northern Italy
RO = Romania
MD = ?
PT = Portuguese
ES = Spain
FR = France
IE = Ireland
UK = United Kingdom
NL = Netherlands
DE = Germany
AT = Austria
CH = Switzerland
DK = Denmark
NO = Norway
SE = Sweden
FI = Finland
EE = Estonia
PL = Poland
RS = Serbia
HU = Hungary
LT = Lithuania
BY = Belarus
RU = Russia
N. RU = Northern Russia

Barreldriver

07-23-2011, 05:40 AM

Redid mine with the new spreadsheet for EU7c, turn out looks much better this time round. :P

1. Cornwall: 4.52126
2. Kent: 5.16764
3. United Kingdom: 5.6765
4. Austria: 5.96096
5. United States: 6.2559
6. SW Scotland: 6.296057
7. Ireland: 8.56124
8. Germany: 9.517
9. Netherlands: 9.51702
10. Norway: 11.5564
http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k438/ragnarok1227/US83RMSEu7c.jpg

Don Brick

07-23-2011, 05:50 AM

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/FI6EU7cChart.jpg

Finland is your closest...who would have ever thought that?

:D well yes!

Here are my top 5 matches.

1. Finland
2. Germany & Netherlands
3. Austria
4. US & Norway
5. Kent

Electronic God-Man

07-23-2011, 06:50 AM

AlabamaMan! US2! Chart me, thank you!

Aino

07-23-2011, 08:25 AM

Imperivm

07-23-2011, 08:57 AM

Eurogenes-

US= 3.6712376271
Denmark = 4.745819
Norway= 4.726178
Kent= 4.851023
(new UK score= 5.4028101154)
Germany= 7.4453446625
Netherlands= 7.445363
Sweden = 9.1795206847
Austria= 10.973786298
Cornwall= 11.4437204802
SW Scot= 12.5844314248
Switzerland= 13.1932119992
Ireland= 15.8630910337

Sahson

07-23-2011, 12:28 PM

What do you mean you weren't able to find them? Finns are in the intersection of Russia and Poland.

Some like Don Draper are in between Swedes, Germans, and Hungarians.

Aino

07-23-2011, 12:44 PM

Some like Don Draper are in between Swedes, Germans, and Hungarians.

Well, Don Draper is special. :)

Sahson

07-23-2011, 01:02 PM

Who is UK20 and UK9? Seems I'm in competition with them to be the most Atlantic:D. I think I'm edging it.

Well this is your true Competition, The Cornish!

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/SoliloCey/UK39cornish.png

Loki

07-23-2011, 01:22 PM

I mean, if we would have siblings in this run, I wouldn't wonder if they would come up with totally different results for their Northern components in particular, probably changed "all or nothing" results to say it that way.

But this latest run seems a lot better than the previous one, no? Or have you seen major discrepancies? From what I can see the results look about as expected, considering European history and ethnogenesis - even the NA and NE split.

Rochefaton

07-23-2011, 02:40 PM

AlabamaMan! US2! Chart me, thank you!

Here you are:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/US2EU7cChart.jpg

You're Austrian this time.

Sahson

07-23-2011, 02:53 PM

Here you are:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/US2EU7cChart.jpg

You're Austrian this time.

you made some more changes to the spreadsheet?

Trog

07-23-2011, 08:13 PM

The Norwegians have a very high Northern European average and relatively low North Atlantic average compared to you; easy answer there. http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/UK39EU7cChart-1.jpg

So it now seems my top 10 is the following:

1. Ireland
2. SW Scotland
3. Cornwall
4. UK
5. Austria
6. Kent
7. USA
8. Spain
9. Portugal
10. France

All countries with settlements of the Celts. Obviously the US includes a lot of people with western European heritage. I quite like this top ten, it screams CELTIC! Not a Germanic in site!

Trog

07-23-2011, 09:05 PM

Well this is your true Competition, The Cornish!

http://i639.photobucket.com/albums/uu120/SoliloCey/UK39cornish.png

Oh? All these people are Cornish?

Sahson

07-23-2011, 10:03 PM

Oh? All these people are Cornish?

Yes heavily Celtic, like you. It's the cornish sample.

Barreldriver

07-24-2011, 01:24 AM

I am curious about something with the Eu7c spreadsheet, in the EU7b sheet Kent was #1 on my list followed by the UK then Cornwall, now it's Cornwall at first then Kent then UK with EU7c, would anyone know what caused the switch between Kent and Cornwall this time around?

Electronic God-Man

07-26-2011, 05:14 AM

Here you are:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/US2EU7cChart.jpg

You're Austrian this time.

That seems odd...

Rochefaton

07-26-2011, 03:07 PM

That seems odd...

I thought it to be a bit strange considering the last run, but the chart is accurate. Perhaps this latest run was just not as accurate for you as the Eu7b run was.

Damião de Góis

07-28-2011, 05:18 PM

Personal results from the last plot :

North-atlantic = 45.7%

South-euro = 45.8%

Balto-slavic = 8.4%

North-euro = 0.0%

Finnic = 0.0%

Sub-saharan = 0.0%

East-asian = 0.0%

You were my number two match on that run, according to Larry in California's program.

http://oi52.tinypic.com/72u5c5.jpg

Hussar

07-30-2011, 04:41 PM

You were my number two match on that run, according to Larry in California's program.

http://oi52.tinypic.com/72u5c5.jpg

Surprise. Looks like i'm a celtiberian born in a different country..:cool:

Damião de Góis

07-30-2011, 05:15 PM

Surprise. Looks like i'm a celtiberian born in a different country..:cool:

Nah, my top20 is made of people who are mainly North Atlantic and South European, like myself. That's the only connection. So, that includes some Iberians, a few North Italians like yourself and a few Frenchies too. :thumb001:

Lisa

08-01-2011, 08:22 PM

You just does conflict itself! Interesting how you have defined the differences at this table? This table simply unscientific nonsense.
http://i032.radikal.ru/1108/82/68f6722f1c51.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru) This is also yours? More like the truth. But also very rough.
http://s40.radikal.ru/i089/1108/5b/01eb9deb69ce.png (http://www.radikal.ru)

Odoacer

08-07-2011, 05:28 AM

Finally got around to doing this; thanks, AlabamaMan!

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=278&pictureid=2356

Top 3:
Switzerland 5.97
Germany 7.81
The Netherlands 7.81

Nurzat

08-07-2011, 06:26 AM

where do you get the EU7c RMSD Calculator from and how do you use it?

d3cimat3d

08-12-2011, 09:13 AM

A little message from Polako:

I now have six European clusters and a much more even seperation between the North Sea and North Atlantic. I don't have the time to post the results today, but will do so soon. The clusters are:

South European (peaks in Italians).
West European (peaks in Spaniards).
East European (peaks in Vologda Russians).
Southern Baltic (peaks in Lithuanians).
North Sea (peaks in Norwegians).
North Atlantic (peaks in Cornwall Brits).

Swedes and some Norwegians score are lot of Baltic in this K=9 (often around 20%), and so does everyone else in the north, except the Cornwall Brits and Irish. So it seems as if things have mostly shifted east, but in a positive way (ie. more accurate).

:icon_lol:

Boudica

08-12-2011, 11:01 AM

A little message from Polako:

:icon_lol:

ah i want to see these results :D :D

poiuytrewq0987

08-15-2011, 07:26 AM

EU9d (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ato3EYTdM8lQdHowU3BzdkhwMDVsc2FDcTEzamVkN nc&hl=en_US#gid=0)

- Western European (peaks in Iberia and Southwestern France)
- Eastern European (peaks in North Russia and the Volga-Ural region)
- Northwestern European (peaks in Ireland and Cornwall)
- Northern European (peaks in Southern Scandinavia)
- Southern European (peaks in Italy and Greece)
- Baltic (peaks in Lithuania and surrounds)
South European: 52.3%
Baltic: 31.3%
North European: 16.2%

I like how I'm more Greek in this run. :cool:

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/3658/apotheosis2.png

Rochefaton

08-15-2011, 07:49 AM

Here (http://www.mediafire.com/?me65wzufl36wru1) is a calculator for the new EU9d run. It is the same as usual. Use OpenOffice, place your values in the designated cells, and get a chart. Be sure to convert your values from the Eurogenes spreadsheet. (Ex. 0.0683 = 6.83)

Here is my new chart:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/R1bman/MyEU9dChart.jpg

I'm very American in this run. :) Besides colonial populations, my top 5 European matches are:

1) Ze Germans
2) Brits from Kent
3) the average British Eurogenes member
4) Austrians
5) The Dutch

Boudica

08-15-2011, 07:56 AM

Rochefaton

08-15-2011, 07:56 AM

Feel free to make chart requests if you can't or simply do not want to utilize the spreadsheet yourself. It will be tomorrow before I can make any more, though. I have to go to bed right now. It's 2:57 AM. :(

Boudica

08-15-2011, 08:28 AM

ugh i wish that i could do the eu9d calc but my computer won't let me.

d3cimat3d

08-15-2011, 08:55 AM

Mine

http://i53.tinypic.com/el72ig.png

A little bit of everything.

poiuytrewq0987

08-15-2011, 09:30 AM

Mine

http://i53.tinypic.com/el72ig.png

A little bit of everything.

I only have NE, SE and BL... guess I'm more pure than you. :D

Boudica

08-15-2011, 09:41 AM

I only have NE, SE and BL... guess I'm more pure than you. :D

meanie.

d3cimat3d

08-15-2011, 09:51 AM

I only have NE, SE and BL... guess I'm more pure than you. :D

Right, you are more Slavic, but you also have no East European at all and I do! :p

meanie.

He's just jealous he can't sip tea with us prestigious North-Westerners. :p

poiuytrewq0987

08-15-2011, 10:06 AM

Right, you are more Slavic, but you also have no East European at all and I do! :p By the way, the Kazakh guy is 68% East European. East European = Indo-European. :ranger:

He's just jealous he can't sip tea with us prestigious North-Westerners. :p

I think I cluster like a typical Greek with a sprinkling of Nordic Goths if we're going by Polako's tests. Just look at other Greeks on the spreadsheet they are a lot like me except their South European is much higher.

Mordid

08-15-2011, 10:06 AM

Right, you are more Slavic, but you also have no East European at all and I do! :p By the way, the Kazakh guy is 68% East European. East European = Indo-European. :ranger:

He's just jealous he can't sip tea with us prestigious North-Westerners. :p

I only have NE, SE and BL... guess I'm more pure than you. :D

http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/madscientist.jpg

Sahson

08-15-2011, 10:46 AM

Sahson

08-15-2011, 11:30 AM

This is for Boadica, I'll fulfill anyone's RMSD Wet dreams request, in return for rep. I mean it's the least you could do. If not I expect payment in blonde hookers.

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x387/sahson1/DaniRMSD.png

Sahson

08-15-2011, 11:53 AM

Amapola

08-15-2011, 11:55 AM

South European 42,28%
West European 30,21%
North European 20,30%
Northwest European 5,26%
Baltic 1,92 %
East Asian 0%
East Asian 0%
East European 0%
Sub-Saharan African 0%
North Asian 0%

poiuytrewq0987

08-15-2011, 12:00 PM

Here is yours Apo/libre assuming that you are in fact RS1 :-

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x387/sahson1/Apormsd.png

Top 5
1. RS(is this serbia?) 10.75
2. Baltic 19.45
3. Moldova 26.1
4. Hungarian 30.22
5. AJ - Azerbaijan? 32.46

Yes, RS1 is me. That chart is total bollocks. I'm more closer to Moldovans than Romanians or even Greeks? Come on... also that Azerbaijan business? Now that is just lol.

Sahson

08-15-2011, 12:06 PM

Yes, RS1 is me. That chart is total bollocks. I'm more closer to Moldovans than Romanians or even Greeks? Come on... also that Azerbaijan business? Now that is just lol.

I didn't make the chart :P but ill have a look and see why it's throwing you into weird groups. ;)

This is for Fresa:-

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x387/sahson1/alanarmsd.png

1. Portuguese 16.06
2. North Italian 22.83
3. French 34.97
4. Italian 37.6
5. Serbian 37.74

PS - AM forgot to add the spanish group :confused:

Graham

08-15-2011, 12:33 PM

45.60% Northern European
43.62% Northwestern European
08.85% Baltic
01.93% western European

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13261&stc=1&d=1313411423

Sahson

08-15-2011, 01:03 PM

It appears there were 6 mistakes in the averages for 5 of the population groups, I've corrected them, and added a spanish.

Here you go Libre, this is you.

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x387/sahson1/rs1rmsd.png

Sahson

08-15-2011, 01:18 PM

Here Graham;

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x387/sahson1/uk19rmsd.png

1. UK 7.76
2. Kent 8.81
3. Australia 12.58
4. Canada 14.71
5. Norway 14.93
6. USA 16.93
7. Netherlands 18.22
8. Cornwall 22.53

poiuytrewq0987

08-15-2011, 01:22 PM

poiuytrewq0987

08-15-2011, 01:44 PM

I think AJ is actually Albania not Azerbaijan since AJ samples have no Asian but are high in South European and significant Baltic (Slavic) admixture are also present.

Sahson

08-15-2011, 02:04 PM

Oreika Bailoak

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x387/sahson1/us216rmsd.png

1. USA(surprise!) 4.98
2. Canuck 8.12
3. Aussie 10.53

Old World
1. Deutscheland 11.99
2. Kent 15.26
3. Austria 15.93
4. UK 17.7
5. Netherlands 22.51

Sahson

08-15-2011, 02:47 PM

So I kind of got bored and made an Apricity average based on 14 people's codes I know of.

This is me:-

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x387/sahson1/Au5rmsd.png

Barreldriver

08-15-2011, 03:01 PM

My results:

West European: 8.9811%
East European: 0.2001%
Northwest European: 35.0977%
North European: 32.8578%
East Asian: 0%
South European: 8.8475%
Sub-Saharan African: 0%
North Asian: 0%
Baltic: 14.0128%
- Western European (peaks in Iberia and Southwestern France)
- Eastern European (peaks in North Russia and the Volga-Ural region)
- Northwestern European (peaks in Ireland and Cornwall)
- Northern European (peaks in Southern Scandinavia)
- Southern European (peaks in Italy and Greece)
- Baltic (peaks in Lithuania and surrounds)

Sahson

08-15-2011, 03:18 PM

Apricity Comparison Chart Eu9d

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x387/sahson1/apricitycompeu9d.png

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x387/sahson1/Apricitybarcomp.png

Q. Can't find you number?
A. It's because I couldn't find it too. Message me your Eurogene code, and I will add you to the comparison charts.

Pallantides

08-15-2011, 04:34 PM

My results(NO2)

West European - 0%
East European - 1.7%
Northwest European - 41.09%
North European - 45.16%
East Asian - 0%
South European - 0%
Sub-Saharan African - 0%
North Asian - 0%
Baltic - 12.02%

Sahson

08-15-2011, 04:43 PM

Here (http://www.zshare.net/download/9371799912c017e0/) is the amended version of AlabamaMan's impressive work - clicky (http://www.zshare.net/download/9371799912c017e0/)

Rochefaton

08-15-2011, 04:50 PM

Here (http://www.zshare.net/download/9371799912c017e0/) is the amended version of AlabamaMan's impressive work - clicky (http://www.zshare.net/download/9371799912c017e0/)

Thanks, bro. :) I knew there would be some errors in my spreadsheet considering I worked on it between 1 AM and 3 AM this morning. I really appreciate you working out the kinks for me. You saved me some time.

Barreldriver

08-15-2011, 05:04 PM

My corrected RMS results for EU9d:

1. United States 3.98
2. Canada 6.75
3. Australia 8.73
4. Kent 12.71
5. Germany 13
6. United Kingdom 15.65
7. Austria 17.9
8. France 19.76
9. Netherlands 21.25
10. Norway 24.05

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k438/ragnarok1227/US83EurogenesResultsAugust14copycopy.jpg

Frederick

08-15-2011, 05:05 PM

I think AJ is actually Albania not Azerbaijan since AJ samples have no Asian but are high in South European and significant Baltic (Slavic) admixture are also present.

No. I mistook AJ for Azerbaijan too once.
But when I asked David, he explained me:

AJ = Ashkenazi Jewish

Rochefaton

08-15-2011, 05:10 PM

My corrected RMS results for EU9d:

1. United States 3.98
2. Canada 6.75
3. Australia 8.73
4. Kent 12.71
5. Germany 13
6. United Kingdom 15.65
7. Austria 17.9
8. France 19.76
9. Netherlands 21.25
10. Norway 24.05

Our top 10 are very similar this time around, BD:

US 4.32
CA 7.94
AU 9.86
DE 10.17
Kent 12.46
UK 15.51
AT 17.98
NL 18.9
FR 21.03
NO 21.63

Sahson

08-15-2011, 05:16 PM

Our top 10 are very similar this time around, BD:

US 4.32
CA 7.94
AU 9.86
DE 10.17
Kent 12.46
UK 15.51
AT 17.98
NL 18.9
FR 21.03
NO 21.63

1. AU 3.35 (surprise! I contribute 1/3 to this...)
2. CA 3.93
3. US 5.02
4. Kent 6.67
5. UK 9.46
6. DE 17
7. NL 18.23
8. NO 18.91
9. Cornwall 22.67
10. AT 24.47

Peasant

08-15-2011, 05:36 PM

http://i55.tinypic.com/4r40v5.jpg

Pie chart again. :p

Pallantides

08-15-2011, 05:38 PM

I wonder why my "East European" score is so low, even compared to some Brits?

Barreldriver

08-15-2011, 05:45 PM

I wonder why my "East European" score is so low, even compared to some Brits?

Caught that your Baltic score is less than mine. :P Figured Norway to be closer to the Balts than the UK.

Sahson

08-15-2011, 06:09 PM

Peasant

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x387/sahson1/Uk41Rmsd.png

New World
AU 11.8
CA 13.04
US 15.79

Old World
1. UK 7.09
2. Kent 7.4
3. Cornwall 18.18
4. NO 23.26
5. S.W. scot 23.84
6. NL 24.41

poiuytrewq0987

08-15-2011, 06:26 PM

I wonder why my "East European" score is so low, even compared to some Brits?

You Northern Europeans are more Slavic than me. :coffee:

Sahson

08-15-2011, 06:30 PM

You Northern Europeans are more Slavic than me. :coffee:

you're more Jewish than me. Are you hiding something?

Loki

08-15-2011, 07:05 PM

Me:

34.53 Northwest European
34.09 North European
11.34 Baltic
10.93 South European
7.39 West European
1.64 Sub-Saharan African
0.08 East Asian
0.00 East European
0.00 North Asian

Damião de Góis

08-15-2011, 07:24 PM

West European - 34.7%
South European - 31.2%
Northwest European - 16.3%
North European - 9.2%
Baltic - 7.3%
Sub Saharan African - 1.0%

East European - 0%
North Asian - 0%
East Asian - 0%

Pallantides

08-15-2011, 07:31 PM

Northwest European(peaks in Ireland and Cornwall)

NO7 - 45.97%
NO2 - 41.09%
NO5 - 36.6%
NO6 - 36.12%
NO4 - 32.59%
NO9 - 32.01%
NO1 - 31.61%
NO8 - 30.15%
NO10 - 29.2%
NO3 - 0%

North European(peaks in Southern Scandinavia)

NO3 - 100%
NO9 - 56.51%
NO4 - 54.48%
NO10 - 53.57%
NO8 - 51.29%
NO5 - 50.73%
NO2 - 45.16%
NO1 - 44.38%
NO6 - 41.77%
NO7 - 28.61%

Lisa

08-15-2011, 07:59 PM

Hey guys, you seriously trust these people? Polako and other ... And their strange tables and maps? :rolleyes:

Libertas

08-15-2011, 08:01 PM

Yes we do.

Loki

08-15-2011, 08:10 PM

Hey guys, you seriously trust these people? Polako and other ... And their strange tables and maps? :rolleyes:

It definitely gives a good insight into our genetic makeup. Makes a whole lot of sense, too. Agrees with what we know about our ancestry. This is not just wishful thinking ...

Amapola

08-15-2011, 08:37 PM

West European - 34.7%
South European - 31.2%
Northwest European - 16.3%
North European - 9.2%
Baltic - 7.3%
Sub Saharan African - 1.0%

East European - 0%
North Asian - 0%
East Asian - 0%
West European - 34.7% 30,21%
South European - 31.2% 42,28%
Northwest European - 16.3% 5,26%
North European - 9.2% 20,30%
Baltic - 7.3% 1,92 %
Sub Saharan African - 1.0% 0%

Mine are in bold.

As loki said it's really a good insight, and I have discovered a few recurrents things that can be explained in contrast with Alex' results. I always get to be more "Southern or Mediterranean or any label applied to it" than "Western" by a bit, and at the same time, i tend to have more "Northern" than "British/Atlantic" or the name you like best for it and in this, I almost lead Iberians, the difference with Alex here is just ridiculous: 9-20. He is more balanced with the Northwest rate.

How is the Baltic thing in Iberians? I don't get why some appear to have none and others like you 7 or higher. :confused:

Lisa

08-15-2011, 08:38 PM

It definitely gives a good insight into our genetic makeup. Makes a whole lot of sense, too. Agrees with what we know about our ancestry. This is not just wishful thinking ...

There are a lot of questions and no answers. Polako and his works are interesting only to members of the project.

Loki

08-15-2011, 08:47 PM

There are a lot of questions and no answers. Polako and his works are interesting only to members of the project.

Yes, a lot of questions, but at least we're all looking for answers instead of standing from the side and criticizing. Why don't you join the project too?

poiuytrewq0987

08-15-2011, 08:48 PM

There are a lot of questions and no answers. Polako and his works are interesting only to members of the project.

You shouldn't take his tests literally but they are interesting to explore for us. :)

poiuytrewq0987

08-15-2011, 08:50 PM

West European - 34.7% 30,21%
South European - 31.2% 42,28%
Northwest European - 16.3% 5,26%
North European - 9.2% 20,30%
Baltic - 7.3% 1,92 %
Sub Saharan African - 1.0% 0%

Mine are in bold.

As loki said it's really a good insight, and I have discovered a few recurrents things that can be explained in contrast with Alex' results. I always get to be more "Southern or Mediterranean or any label applied to it" than "Western" by a bit, and at the same time, i tend to have more "Northern" than "British/Atlantic" or the name you like best for it and in this, I almost lead Iberians, the difference with Alex here is just ridiculous: 9-20. He is more balanced with the Northwest rate.

How is the Baltic thing in Iberians? I don't get why some appear to have none and others like you 7 or higher. :confused:

Having lots of South European could be a leftover from Roman times. The Romans loved going to Hibernia and the peninsula was loyal to the Roman Empire until the very end when the Visigoths conquered it.

Damião de Góis

08-15-2011, 08:52 PM

West European - 34.7% 30,21%
South European - 31.2% 42,28%
Northwest European - 16.3% 5,26%
North European - 9.2% 20,30%
Baltic - 7.3% 1,92 %
Sub Saharan African - 1.0% 0%

Mine are in bold.

As loki said it's really a good insight, and I have discovered a few recurrents things that can be explained in contrast with Alex' results. I always get to be more "Southern or Mediterranean or any label applied to it" than "Western" by a bit, and at the same time, i tend to have more "Northern" than "British/Atlantic" or the name you like best for it and in this, I almost lead Iberians, the difference with Alex here is just ridiculous: 9-20. He is more balanced with the Northwest rate.

How is the Baltic thing in Iberians? I don't get why some appear to have none and others like you 7 or higher. :confused:

I'm a bad example to choose for a comparison because i have a very low "North European" in comparison with most other iberians. In other words, your results are more in line with other iberians than mine.
From what i see, there are more iberians with a more "North European" and low "North Atlantic" than the other way around.

As for the Baltic i think it can be explained with east germanic tribes? Suebians or Vandals. If not, then it's some old pre-historic connection.

Lisa

08-15-2011, 08:56 PM

Yes, a lot of questions, but at least we're all looking for answers instead of standing from the side and criticizing. Why don't you join the project too?

I thought about it

poiuytrewq0987

08-15-2011, 09:16 PM

Right just for you member of a project, but make conclusions on Nations erroneously.

We haven't concluded on anything, it's all theory and that's what we are doing... theorising.

Amapola

08-15-2011, 09:39 PM

I'm a bad example to choose for a comparison because i have a very low "North European" in comparison with most other iberians. In other words, your results are more in line with other iberians than mine.
From what i see, there are more iberians with a more "North European" and low "North Atlantic" than the other way around.

As for the Baltic i think it can be explained with east germanic tribes? Suebians or Vandals. If not, then it's some old pre-historic connection.

Yes, I picked you for being the only Iberian for comparison, anyway... and even if you are Portuguese I compared my rates with yours, keeping in mind the Spanish average standard of 15% NW and 15% NE: your northWest European keeps itself according to the Spanish average of 15% while mine is considerably lower. Then your North European is lower than the Spanish average but still higher than my Northwest. I suspect that the Portuguese average numbers must not be very far from this. What is sure is that neither you or me are the best Iberian specimen to set as an example, being both unbalanced to a side. :p

Amapola

08-15-2011, 09:42 PM

Having lots of South European could be a leftover from Roman times. The Romans loved going to Hibernia and the peninsula was loyal to the Roman Empire until the very end when the Visigoths conquered it.

Hmmm, don't know, don't know. I rather lean towards the "neolithic" thing that, for circumstances, are more present in my genes than the average Iberian. I don't even know what's the average though.

Osweo

08-15-2011, 10:14 PM

your northWest European keeps itself according to the Spanish average of 15% while mine is considerably lower.
I'll fix that for you, Cielito. :cool:

West Euro ...... 0.00001
East Euro ....... 0.00001
Northwest Euro 0.740329
North Euro ..... 0.145091
Gook ............. 0.00001
Wop .............. 0.00001
Nig ................ 0.00001
Chukchi .......... 0.00001
Baltic ............. 0.11452

Libertas

08-15-2011, 10:38 PM

What are the average proportions for North Italians, Tuscans and South Italians?

Frederick

08-15-2011, 10:38 PM

Ok, then I take responability for the Germans *and so took Frederick the crown of the empire and put it on this head. Angels played a catchy tune and Barbarossa smiled from the cave, saying: right so! My rightfull heir just arrived. I might finaly pass on to the heavenly kingdoms now*

And so, the Europeans covered in fear as Frederick pulled his sword and slammed it to the table. Frederick, the whip of god, will whip you into shape. harhar...

ok good for now....

Here are the Germans:

Northern European (Center in Southern Scandinavia)
German average: 34%
DE5 - 58% (German lost eastern terretories)
DE7 - 50% (Northeast German + Southwest German mix with a pinch of Swiss)
DE14 - 44%
DE17 - 38%
DE13 - 37%
ME - 35% (German lost eastern terretories + Northwest German mix with a pinch of Lithuanian)
DE12 - 33%
DE18 - 31%
DE1 - 31% (German lost eastern terretories + Eastgerman mix)
AT1 - 31% (Austrian)
DE10 - 28% (Southgerman + Alsace)
DE16 - 25%
DE15 - 22% (German with pinches of Danish and Czechian)
AT - 22% (Austrian)
DE9 - 20% (German lost eastern terretories + East German)
DE11 - 19% (German lost eastern terretories + Southwest German mix)

North-Western (Center in Ireland and Cornwall)
German average: 25%
DE15 - 45% (German with pinches of Danish and Czechian)
DE17 - 44%
DE9 - 43% (German lost eastern terretories + East German)
DE13 - 41%
AT1 - 30% (Austrian)
DE11 - 28% (German lost eastern terretories + Southwest German mix)
DE18 - 26%
DE1 - 24% (German lost eastern terretories + Eastgerman mix)
AT2 - 22% (Austrian)
ME - 21% (German lost eastern terretories + Northwest German mix with a pinch of Lithuanian)
DE12 - 21%
DE10 - 21% (Southgerman + Alsace)
DE14 - 19%
DE16 - 16%
DE7 - 7% (Northeast German + Southwest German mix with a pinch of Swiss)
DE5 - 0% (German lost eastern terretories)

Baltic (Center in Lithuania)
German average: 19%
DE5 - 33% (German lost eastern terretories)
DE1 - 32% (German lost eastern terretories + Eastgerman mix)
ME - 29% (German lost eastern terretories + Northwest German mix with a pinch of Lithuanian)
AT2 - 29% (Austrian)
DE15 - 22% (German with pinches of Danish and Czechian)
DE16 - 22%
DE18 - 22%
DE7 - 19% (Northeast German + Southwest German mix with a pinch of Swiss)
DE10 - 19% (Southgerman + Alsace)
DE11 - 17% (German lost eastern terretories + Southwest German mix)
DE12 - 16%
DE17 - 14%
AT1 - 14%
DE9 - 10% (German lost eastern terretories + East German)
DE13 - 11%
DE14 - 5%

German lost terretories map for better recall:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CZ64TTFZL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Electronic God-Man

08-15-2011, 11:03 PM

EU9:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13277&d=1313449317

Can AlabamaMan or Sahson make me one of those pretty graphs, please?

Pallantides

08-15-2011, 11:18 PM

Could I also get a graph?

Sahson

08-16-2011, 02:20 AM

St. Loki

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x387/sahson1/lokirmsd.png

New World
US 5.19
CA 8.11
AU 10.1

Old World
1. Kent 12.49
2. DE 13.6
3. UK 15.37
4. AT 18.41
5. NL 19.3
6. FR 19.58
7. NO 23.31
8. CH 25.14
9. Cornwall 26.25
10. SE 29.89

Sahson

08-16-2011, 02:42 AM

Osweo

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x387/sahson1/Osweormsd.png

New World
AU 39.88
CA 40.05
US 43.35

Old world
1. IE 12.83
2. S.W. scot 18.96
3. Cornwall 23.01
4. UK 39.62
5. Kent 42.13

Sahson

08-16-2011, 03:14 AM

Boadicea

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x387/sahson1/Boadicarmsd.png

New World
US 5.04
CA 6.64
AU 9.26

Old World
1. Kent 13.38
2. UK 15.39
3. DE 15.55
4. AT 19.01
5. FR 21.44
6. Cornwall 23.03
7. NL 23.04
8. CH 24.94
9. NO 26.22
10 SW scot 27.65

Hussar

08-16-2011, 06:37 PM

My results :

West european : 11,7 %

East European : 0,0%

Northwest euro : 23,5 %

North European : 10,2%

East asian : 0,0%

South european : 45,9%

Sub saharan : 0,0%

North asian : 0,0%

Baltic : 8,4%

Note : in comparison to the previous plot (K-7) the percentage of Baltic and south european is the same ; on the other side, the compact north-atlantic component i had (45%), here seems fragmented in 1) northwest euro 2) west-euro 3) north euro. Or, at least, seems so arithmetically.
Almost like 3 subclades of the same stock (but it's just my personal supposition analysing my results)

There are questions, but it's a good job. Looks like the methodology of Polako is elaborated more with the finality to explore and subdivide the northern european components.